# Has Heritage Fdn killed Conservative/Libertarian political appeal to 'low IQ' Hispanics/Latinos? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2013, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973 "2013-05-10T11:28:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/61 "2013-05-11T01:10:52Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > You think hard core white supremacists aren’t cunning and clever enough with their higher IQ’s to present themselves as less extreme in public? So how does this work, any writing with racist overtones is to be considered white supremacy and/or white nationalism? Or do you consult tea leaves, on a case-by-case basis? You can’t know the mind of another person, you can only judge their words and actions. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/62 "2013-05-11T01:33:46Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > So how does this work, any writing with racist overtones is to be considered white supremacy and/or white nationalism? Or do you consult tea leaves, on a case-by-case basis? > > You can’t know the mind of another person, you can only judge their words and actions. I would think that trying to sabotage immigration reform that would mostly benefit minorities, with way off base assumptions and flawed research, qualifies as one of those actions. Particularly when one finds first how odd the research is and then one turns the rock and finds even more reprehensible [del]vermin crawling out[/del] past research from the authors. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/63 "2013-05-11T01:38:54Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > You think the public believes that libertarians are anti-immigration, or for that matter that all conservatives are? There’s a substantial free-trade wing of the conservative base that strongly supports open borders. What does ‘free-trade’ have to do with the support for what is commonly known as the ‘Dream Act’ for undocumented grownup children who were brought here illegally by their parents and have no country of their own except the good old USA and just want to become Americans like the kids they went to school with. If libertarians and conservatives support the “Dream Act” what has been the hold up for passage? > [@](#): > > GOP courts wary Latinos By Juan Williams - 08/30/12 12:00 AM ET > But the GOP platform for this convention has not improved relations with Latinos. > > It calls for undocumented workers to engage in “self-deportation.” It argues for a national version of Arizona’s controversial immigration law. And it opposes in-state tuition at state universities for children of illegal immigrants. > > In addition, the author of Arizona’s controversial “papers please” law, Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, is a prominent adviser to the Romney campaign. The chairman of Romney’s presidential campaign in California is former Gov. Pete Wilson. He is best known for championing the controversial Proposition 187, which denied state services to illegal immigrants and was later overturned by the courts. > > By contrast, the Democratic convention next week will be chaired by Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa. The keynote address will be given by San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro. > > The convention comes just two weeks after the federal government began taking applications from younger illegal immigrants seeking relief from deportation — a result of Obama’s executive order offering temporary work permits to those enrolled in college or enlisted in the military. > > Obama used his executive power to implement this provision of the DREAM Act after it had been blocked repeatedly by Republicans in Congress. Mitt Romney said that he would have vetoed the DREAM Act, and Paul Ryan voted against it in 2010. > > At a time when Republicans should be embracing the pragmatism and inclusion of Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio, they are doubling down on the rigid immigration posture of Kris Kobach, Pete Wilson and Arizona laws that alienate Hispanics. > > Even if Romney wins this election, the GOP’s troubled relationship with Latino voters at the Tampa convention is flashing like a road sign, warning of serious trouble ahead. > Read more: [http://thehill.com/conventions-2012/gop-convention-tampa/246565-gop-courts-wary-latinos#ixzz2SwZ23iEd](http://thehill.com/conventions-2012/gop-convention-tampa/246565-gop-courts-wary-latinos#ixzz2SwZ23iEd) > Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/64 "2013-05-11T01:46:55Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I would think that trying to sabotage immigration reform that would mostly benefit minorities, with way off base assumptions and flawed research, qualifies as one of those actions. Particularly when one finds first how odd the research is and then one turns the rock and finds even more reprehensible [del]vermin crawling out[/del] past research from the authors. White supremacy and white nationalism are specific ideas, that are not interchangeable with racism. What makes you suspect that these are beliefs held by the authors of this paper? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/65 "2013-05-11T02:03:00Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > What does ‘free-trade’ have to do with the support for what is commonly known as the ‘Dream Act’ for undocumented grownup children who were brought here illegally by their parents and have no country of their own except the good old USA and just want to become Americans like the kids they went to school with. Supporters of free trade tend to support fairly easy immigration, because the flow of labor is just like the flow of any other good or service. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > If libertarians and conservatives support the “Dream Act” what has been the hold up for passage? Clearly, enough conservatives _don’t_ support it, nor enough progressives or liberals. There are a significant number of pro-immigration Republicans, but they aren’t the dominant faction at the present. Libertarians, as I’m sure you know, are very pro-immigration. Furthermore… 1. There are no libertarians in the Senate. 2. The DREAM Act enjoyed some Republican support in the past. [The last time it was introduced in the Senate](http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2011/may/11/harry-reid-reintroduces-dream-act/)… > [@](#): > > While Reid did not get his full caucus of 59 Democrats to support the DREAM Act last year, most Republicans who have supported the measure in years past – such as Sens. John Cornyn of Texas, Jon Kyl of Arizona, John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina – also withheld their votes, objecting that an independent piece of amnesty-granting legislation shouldn’t be allowed to move without some sort of counterbalance to increase immigration enforcement, which was the original concept behind the more comprehensive approaches to immigration changes. It’s been held up because there aren’t 60 votes for it; it wasn’t supported by all the Democrats in that session or enough Republicans to make up the difference. The reason is right there: amnesty creates a moral hazard for illegal immigration, so amnesty supporters also want increased enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/66 "2013-05-11T02:08:32Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > White supremacy and white nationalism are specific ideas, that are not interchangeable with racism. What makes you suspect that these are beliefs held by the authors of this paper? “Not interchangeable”? I’m not making that point BTW, but it does look silly to attempt to separate them a lot. > **[White Nationalist](http://www.splcenter.org/resources/extremist-files/white-nationalist/)** > > White nationalist groups frequently claim that white people are persecuted by society and even the victims of a racial genocide. > [@](#): > > White nationalist groups espouse white supremacist or white separatist ideologies, often focusing on the alleged inferiority of non-whites. > > … > > These groups range from those that use racial slurs and issue calls for violence to others that present themselves as serious, non-violent organizations and employ the language of academia. > > … ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/67 "2013-05-11T02:32:13Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > “Not interchangeable”? I’m not making that point BTW, but it does look silly to attempt to separate them a lot. > > [White Nationalist](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/white-nationalist#.UY2ngKLvvh4) Will all due respect to the Southern Poverty Law Center, while that might be a crude working description of white nationalist _groups_, it’s a poor definition of white nationalism. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalism) and even [RationalWiki](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/White_nationalism) have better overviews. Like all forms of nationalism, white nationalism is about the concept of [national identity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identity). For white nationalists, this identity is their whiteness, however they define it. This means that all whites share a nation, and non-whites are not part of it. As has been pointed out, this isn’t the same as racial separatism; a white nationalist might accept non-white residents in his white nation in some sort of servile capacity. And a racial separatist needn’t be a racial supremacist, they could believe that all races should keep separate as part of a natural order, without also needing to believe that one race was superior to or should dominate the others. These are all distinct from racism, which is the belief that races exist, and that members of a race share attributes which make them inferior or superior in significant ways to other races. A racist needn’t be a supremacist; they could believe that some races were better than others without advocating that the superior race dominate the others, or the Reggie White version where each race has attributes that make them different from others, without comment on their value relative to each other. Based on the paper, I see no evidence that Richwine is anything other than simply racist (or a victim of his own bad science). He advocates for inherent differences due to race, but his notion of admitting high-IQ non-white immigrants to the U.S. as equal citizens rules out white supremacy or white nationalism without some other evidence, unless you’re comfortable with assuming things he didn’t write, such as that he didn’t really mean that part, to condemn him. Which is silly, since there’s plenty to condemn him for based on what he _did_ write. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/68 "2013-05-11T02:34:34Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Will all due respect to the Southern Poverty Law Center, while that might be a crude working description of white nationalist _groups_, it’s a poor definition of white nationalism. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalism) and even [RationalWiki](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/White_nationalism) have better overviews. In RationalWiki the category the article is and where it tells you to look for more information is about **racism**. > [@](#): > > See also > > ``` > Racial pride > White separatism > White supremacy > Youth for Western Civilization > Third positionism > Anti-racist is a codeword for anti-white > Wingnut > > ``` > [@](#): > > Categories: > > ``` > Racism > Extreme wingnuttery > Political philosophies > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/69 "2013-05-11T02:40:18Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > In RacionalWiki the category the article is and where it tells you to look for more information is about **racism**. Of course it is. Racism is the underling belief of racial nationalism, racial supremacy, and racial separatism. All race nationalists, supremacists, and separatists are racists, but not all racists are nationalists, supremacists, or separatists. The article on Stalinism is probably under a category of Marxism or Communism. All Stalinists are Communists, but not all Communists are Stalinists. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/70 "2013-05-11T02:52:54Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Of course it is. Racism is the underling belief of racial nationalism, racial supremacy, and racial separatism. All race nationalists, supremacists, and separatists are racists, but not all racists are nationalists, supremacists, or separatists. And of course it was not my main point, I do think that this double down by the Heritage on not dismissing their “researchers” is only telling even more Hispanics who the Heritage is continuing to support, so more Hispanics will dismiss the conservatives. However, the straw is coming forward, we were talking about \*\*white \*\*supremacists and \*\*white \*\*nationalists. Not just plain nationalists, supremacists, or separatists. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/71 "2013-05-11T03:07:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And of course it was not my main point, I do think that this double down by the Heritage on not dismissing their “researchers” is only telling even more Hispanics who the Heritage is continuing to support, so more Hispanics will dismiss the conservatives. Yes, this paper reflects very, very badly on Heritage, though I doubt it’ll move the needle much with Hispanic voters. It’s nothing new, really. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > However, the straw is coming forward, we were talking about \*\*white \*\*supremacists and \*\*white \*\*nationalists. Not just plain nationalists, supremacists, or separatists. Eh? Racial nationalism, racial supremacy, and racial separatism are all subsets of racism. White nationalism, white supremacy, and white separatism are subsets of racial nationalism, racial supremacy, and racial separatism. Strictly speaking, racial supremacy and racial separatism are subsets of racial nationalism, since they both depend on racial national identity. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/72 "2013-05-11T03:16:05Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Eh? Racial nationalism, racial supremacy, and racial separatism are all subsets of racism. White nationalism, white supremacy, and white separatism are subsets of racial nationalism, racial supremacy, and racial separatism. > > Strictly speaking, racial supremacy and racial separatism are subsets of racial nationalism, since they both depend on racial national identity. Sounds like I say potato, you say potahto. In any case, I defer to the context at RationalWiki and the opinion of the experts on looking for discrimination at the SPLC. And my experiences in the matter, racism is not a strange concept for many white supremacists and white nationalists. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/73 "2013-05-11T03:16:55Z")
You admit Republicans are blocking Dems version of Dream Act. Rand Paul is the most libertarian Senator in the Senate. Rand Paul is a Republican Republicans have their lizard brain tied to Heritage Foundation Research. The conservative Heritage Foundation came out as they always do providing some profound research so Republicans in Congress and flaming hate monger hosts on talk radio have something to cite to oppose whatever Democrats want to do. The Heritage Foundation just got nailed at least keeping a big toe dipped in racially tinged politics. My point is there need not be ‘pure white supremacist sentiment’ involved in the past two days of ‘immigration’ news to make this whole affair a huge problem/disaster for the mostly older and whiter Republican Party of which your Senator with the most libertarian tendencies is a member. This disaster for the Republicans hoping to make some progress attracting Latino voters is great for whom I believe are on the right side of this issue. I am sure that very few Latinos watching the politics in play on immigration reform would care to hear what is the exact definition or degree of racist that this Redwine character might be. Why would they concern themselves with that when the guy has defined ‘natives’ having higher IQs than them and their grandchildren so why let them in. Rachel Maddow has a great commentary on the whole shebang: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6Kc8kdfbVM) Are we witnessing a major self-destruction of conservatism’s outreach to non-white Americans with this Heritage Foundation blunder that will not be forgotten even if substantial immigration reform passes with some Republican support? I am sure Rubio hoped for better press as a Republican than what the Heritage Foundation has provided. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/74 "2013-05-11T03:38:12Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Sounds like I say potato, you say potahto. In any case, I defer to the context at RationalWiki and the opinion of the experts on looking for discrimination at the SPLC. And my experiences in the matter, racism is not a strange concept for many white supremacists and white nationalists. No, racism is a defining concept for all white supremacists and nationalists. You can’t believe that one race is superior to another or that race defines national identity unless you believe that races exist (biologically) and that members of a race share attributes that make them inferior or superior to other races. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/75 "2013-05-11T03:56:12Z")
I just don’t see what your point is there, suffice to say, unless you can point to other sources that explain that better, I would have to conclude that it is just your opinion, just not well supported. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/76 "2013-05-11T04:04:15Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > You admit Republicans are blocking Dems version of Dream Act. Along with some Democrats, yes. Moral hazard, remember? They wanted more enforcement if there was to be an amnesty. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Rand Paul is the most libertarian Senator in the Senate. And is not a libertarian, nor does he call himself one. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Rand Paul is a Republican > > Republicans have their lizard brain tied to Heritage Foundation Research. I don’t know why I ever expect reasoned discourse from you, when you write things like “lizard brain”. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The conservative Heritage Foundation came out as they always do providing some profound research so Republicans in Congress and flaming hate monger hosts on talk radio have something to cite to oppose whatever Democrats want to do. > > The Heritage Foundation just got nailed at least keeping a big toe dipped in racially tinged politics. This reflects very poorly on the Heritage Foundation, and indirectly so the Republican Party, because they are informally affiliated. They didn’t do the research, after all; Rand Paul and Mitch McConnel aren’t telling Richwine what to put in his final draft. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > My point is there need not be ‘pure white supremacist sentiment’ involved in the past two days of ‘immigration’ news to make this whole affair a huge problem/disaster for the mostly older and whiter Republican Party of which your Senator with the most libertarian tendencies is a member. Note that the \*actual \* libertarians at the Cato Institute immediately tore this study to shreds. In case you actually want to know, Rand Paul stated his opposition to this bill [as follows](http://rt.com/usa/rand-paul-rubio-immigration-015/): > [@Rand Paul](#): > > “It may pass the Senate [but] may not pass the House,” said the senator. “I want to be constructive in making the bill strong enough that conservatives, myself included, conservative Republicans in the House will vote for this because I think immigration reform is something we should do.” > > “In this bill I am worried, though, and this is similar to what Senator [Ron] Johnson (R-Wisconsin) said, that it says, well, you have to have a plan to build a fence, but you don’t have to build a fence,” he continued. “And if you don’t have a plan to build a fence, then you get a commission. I don’t know what happens if the commission doesn’t do anything. That’s the story of Washington around here.” This tracks with information from upthread that Republicans strongly approve of immigration reform, they just differ with Democrats over what form it should take. Nobody seems overly happy with the status quo. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > This disaster for the Republicans hoping to make some progress attracting Latino voters is great for whom I believe are on the right side of this issue. It was doomed anyway; as has already been pointed out, Latinos prefer a larger, more active government that conflicts with the Republican base; they are also the most accepting of homosexuality of any of racial group. It was never a good fit, frankly. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I am sure that very few Latinos watching the politics in play on immigration reform would care to hear what is the exact definition or degree of racist that this Redwine character might be. > > Why would they concern themselves with that when the guy has defined ‘natives’ having higher IQs than them and their grandchildren so why let them in. That’s no excuse for **you** attacking the man with inaccurate, pejorative terms. He’s earned the label of “racist” (or “idiot”), but not “supremacist” or “nationalist”. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Are we witnessing a major self-destruction of conservatism’s outreach to non-white Americans with this Heritage Foundation blunder that will not be forgotten even if substantial immigration reform passes with some Republican support? I’m sure it’ll be forgotten; it’s a report from a think tank. People that talk politics on message boards won’t forget, but the everyday voter will. They are more pragmatic and less involved in the gamesmanship. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I am sure Rubio hoped for better press as a Republican than what the Heritage Foundation has provided. I’m sure. We will soon witness a battle for the future of the Republican Party, I expect, and these sorts of conflicts are the opening salvos. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/77 "2013-05-11T04:23:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I just don’t see what your point is there, suffice to say, unless you can point to other sources that explain that better, I would have to conclude that it is just your opinion, just not well supported. The point is that racial supremacy, separatism, and nationalism are more reprehensible, and far less common, than mere racism. Racism is objectionable, but quite common. Anyone who thinks Latinos are hot-blooded or whites are greedy or Asians are great at math is guilty of racism. It’s not harmless, but it’s a deeply-ingrained part of our culture, and we function as a nation in spite of it. Racial nationalism, supremacy, and separatism are much, much less common, and far more vile. If their views came to dominate, the results would be somewhere between slave-state, total racial segregation, and genocide. Calling every white racist a white supremacist is not only inaccurate, it grossly waters down what it means to be a white supremacist, such that people are left thinking that white supremacists are just racists, like their old beloved Uncle Bob who tells off-color jokes; rather than radical hatemongers calling for the subjugation of non-white races under white rule or their wholesale extermination. There is a very good reason SPLC tracks white nationalist groups, and not just racists in general. So, one more stab at this, using Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > [Racism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism) is usually defined as views, practices and actions reflecting the belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable, more desirable, inferior or superior. > [@](#): > > [White nationalism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Nationalism) is a political ideology that advocates a racial definition of national identity for white people. > [@](#): > > [White supremacy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supremacy) is the belief of, and/or promotion of the belief, that white people are superior to people of other racial backgrounds and that therefore whites should politically dominate non-whites. The term is also used to describe a political ideology that perpetuates and maintains the social, political, historical and/or industrial dominance of whites. > [@](#): > > [White separatism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_separatism) is a separatist political movement that seeks separate economic and cultural development for white people. And a visual: > [@](#): > > Racism > > > [@](#): > > > > White nationalism > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > White supremacy and separatism Richwine goes in the outer box; just a racist. The White Aryan Resistance goes in the center box, which means they are also racists and white nationalists. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/78 "2013-05-11T04:40:02Z")
Too much complexity only to get that I agree a lot with what you say, just remember that Wikipedia is not considered to be that reliable. Nor it does seem to be a huge demand nor other respected cites that need to separate racists from “the far more vile”. for the examples of “plain racism” you mentioned, the word “prejudiced” exists. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/79 "2013-05-11T14:40:37Z")
The thing is, nearly all racists are white supremacists, if not white nationalists. All the term literally means is that you think white people are supreme, i.e. better than everyone else. As most racists are white, that makes them white supremacists. You can define white supremacy as a subset of white nationalism, but there is no reason to expect someone else not to be using the plain meaning of the words, especially after they’ve made it clear repeatedly what definition they were using. Plus, you knew what he meant, so all this is is semantic quibbling. It’s better to argue ideas, not words. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/80 "2013-05-11T18:25:56Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The thing is, nearly all racists are white supremacists, if not white nationalists. All the term literally means is that you think white people are supreme, i.e. better than everyone else. As most racists are white, that makes them white supremacists. > > You can define white supremacy as a subset of white nationalism, but there is no reason to expect someone else not to be using the plain meaning of the words, especially after they’ve made it clear repeatedly what definition they were using. > > Plus, you knew what he meant, so all this is is semantic quibbling. It’s better to argue ideas, not words. No, the term literally means that you think white people _should be_ supreme, i.e. politically dominant over non-whites. I only expect people to use the actual meaning of the words. That’s not a high standard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973.md?page=5)