# Has Iraq ever done anything to the USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372 "2002-09-07T00:54:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/41 "2002-09-07T18:18:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cuate \* > \*\*Iraq did attack the U.S.S. Stark in 1987, under somewhat clouded circumstances, and 35 Americans were killed. > > [http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id280.htm](http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id280.htm) > > Of course, at the time, it was seen as a mistake made in the fog of war. \*\* The same could probably be said about the U.S.S _Liberty_. (Only that was Israel) > [@](#): > > Hussein got power in Iraq by killing people. And so did a lot of other leaders, some we supported, some we didn’t. TECHNICALLY, the Founding Fathers got power by killing a lot of soldiers. If you want to be really anal about it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/42 "2002-09-07T18:21:58Z")
I tend to agree with your position. I want to see some firm evidnce, or if they are going with what they have now, I want a full agreement from Congress and the support of major allies. The thing is, I think they have it. I’ve been doing a lot of reading through various sites like [globalsecurity.org](http://globalsecurity.org), trying to piece together the U.S. administration’s perspective, and there’s a lot of damning stuff just in the public record. But we’ll see. Like I said, this week Bush is going to be making the case in front of Congress. Today he is meeting with Blair. Blair himself has a dossier on Iraq that he’s going to release to parliament, if not the public. If the British Parliament starts to line up behind Blair after receiving this information, that will be a good hint that there is classified information that is damning. We’ll all know soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/43 "2002-09-07T18:23:35Z")
**Henry B** – thanks for the kind words. I certainly appreciate your participation on this message board. > [@](#): > > **sailor** > \>\> Some of you people are in serious denial about the threat posed by Iraq. \<\< > > Yes, if by “some of you people” you are referring to the entire world except for the US government. Yep, I’m afraid so. I have recently seen surveys showing that majorities in two different countries believe that the US was partly the cause of the 9/11 attack. Canada was one; I forget the other. Even many Americans are in denial. I hear “arguments” for the proposition that “Even if Saddam gets nuclear weapons, they’re no threat to _us_” So, one asks why they would be no threat to us, and gets insubstantial answers: “Saddam would be nuts to use them against us” - _like we know he’s sane?_ “There’s no delivery system” -\* like a bomb couldn’t be stuck into the trunk of a car and driven in from Canada or Mexico?\* “Saddam wouldn’t give nukes to terrorists, because he’s unconnected with al Qaeda” – _like we know that for sure?_ ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/44 "2002-09-07T18:28:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > \*\* > And you think that the rise of retail prices and the burden passed on the consummer would justify bombing cities, having people killed by thousands, etc… > > Please, emigrate to some other planet… \*\* Do I think that the threat of global depression is worth the military elimination of one of the world’s leading violants of human rights and the greatest threat to international security in a volatile region? Absolutely and with no apologies. In fact, short of retaliatory strikes I can think of no better reason to employ military strength than the preservation of the world economy (which, you will remember, is closely linked to peace/violence). Keep in mind, we’re not talking a few more dollars a month at the pump- if an army travels on its stomach then a society travels on petroleum- protect the Spice. Another enormous fear of Hussein is that he is aging and there are reports frequently he is in ill health. He does not care about posterity- he won’t be here- and his son and probably successor Uday is believed to be Rehoboam to his Solomon. There is no hard evidence to believe for a moment that either would hesitate to use nuclear weapons. And I just got my green card on this planet, so I’m staying here for the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/45 "2002-09-07T18:35:44Z")
[QUOTE] \*And since I brought up this point, I must object to your characterization that it was intended to vilify the US. I have no qualms about Truman’s decision to drop the bomb. It is relevent to US foreign policy with regards to how we are perceived abroad. \*\* How we are perceived abroad should include that we used atomic power, developed by us in a defensive war as a preventative measure not to allow the Third Reich to gain control of the weapon first, in order to bring to a close the greatest bloodbath in history by crippling the nation which had without provocation sunk our Pacific fleet four years earlier and made walking skeletons out of our POWs even as they raped most of mainland Asia. If this is not attached to the perception of us then the perceivers are not thinking rationally and there is no pleasing them, so we should not concern ourselves with PR but with the facts. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/46 "2002-09-07T19:06:39Z")
Well, this is heartening: sanity is breaking out, even on the right. With, as usual, the stubborn resistance of some. Much of what I hear sounds like Miss Cleo has been drafted to the Homeland Security Dept. and is issuing predictions on what Goddam Saddam is going to do. Is he nuts? No. He has been sitting on his hands ever since Desert Storm. Evil, vicious, etc. he is. Crazy he ain’t. Stalin makes a good comparison to Saddam. Cold, brutal, calculating, and paranoid. About the nukes: does he have them? No. A nuke is a very complex bit of machinery, you cant just cobble one together and send it by Fed Ex. Most importantly, it must, repeat, _must_ be tested. There is no way to quietly set off a test nuke. So he hasn’t got one. One remarkable result of Bush diplomacy is the growing rapprochment of Iraq and Iran. Our Leader has inspired peace and mutual cooperation between two states that used to hate each other, and now cordially hate us! Way to go, Georgie! As to the “Kill for gas” argument…if you are on some sort of medication, check your dosage level. If you are not, get some. Now. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/47 "2002-09-07T19:12:13Z")
elucidator wrote: “About the nukes: does he have them? No. A nuke is a very complex bit of machinery, you cant just cobble one together and send it by Fed Ex. Most importantly, it must, repeat, must be tested. There is no way to quietly set off a test nuke. So he hasn’t got one.” There are more than one hundred “suitcase nukes” missing from the Soviet arsenal. Is it not conceivable that an oil rich ruler who has been thwarted in his own attempts to build nuclear weapons is the owner of one or more? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/48 "2002-09-07T19:20:59Z")
elucidator wrote: “As to the “Kill for gas” argument…if you are on some sort of medication, check your dosage level. If you are not, get some. Now.” Please cease and desist with the ad homs. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/49 "2002-09-07T19:33:43Z")
Well, its not necessarily an ad hom. It could have been addressed to _anyone_ making the blitheringly insane argument that we should kill folks in order to keep our SUV’s well fueled. Oh, wait. You _are_ the only one making that argument. Guilty as charged! I will now trudge to the river, there to perform the Ancient Tasmanian Ritual of Self-Abasement, accompanied by a Chorus of Bitter Virgins, intoning dirges of Woe and Humiliation. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/50 "2002-09-07T19:48:36Z")
Heck, elucidator, I wouldn’t even call him paranoid. A hell of a lot of people _are_ out to get him, after all. But you’re correct–there is no evidence whatsoever that he is anything other than a brutal dictator, and clearly not a nut case. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/51 "2002-09-07T19:54:49Z")
Actually, I had a SUV exclusion in that- read it again. IF it were only to keep our SUVs fueled, it would be an act of unconscionable agression. However, it doesn’t end or even begin there. Will you concede that the price of petroleum is a vital influence on the global economy (ask Jimmy Carter if you need to “Phone a Friend”)? And that the world is in a vulnerable phase economically due to the transitioning of the G8 economic modalities, the strengthening and coming out of the southeast Asian economies, the reliance worldwide on imports, etc. etc.? And that the majority of human misery comes from economic want and that this comes from the of erosion of base needs and that transportation supplies the goods that supplies these needs? War is about economics- always has been, always will be. (Is it any wonder that the worst war in world history immediately followed the worst depression since the Industrial Revolution?)Human rights violations will never be eradicated by it and no standing army will ever spend enough time in a field to destroy a brutal dictatorship when there are not major economic incentives to justify it. I think the hypocrisy of wrapping them in ideology is ridiculous and outdated. Personally, I trust America’s leadership of the removal of Saddam more than I do any other nation I can think of (except perhaps Canada or Switzerland, and neither of them have the standing military to pull it off). And in a story closely related to Saddam, the Harry Potter toy is wreaking havoc with little girl’s psyches: [http://www.pagesix.com/pagesix/pagesix.htm](http://www.pagesix.com/pagesix/pagesix.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/52 "2002-09-07T20:02:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*Heck, elucidator, I wouldn’t even call him paranoid. A hell of a lot of people _are_ out to get him, after all. But you’re correct–there is no evidence whatsoever that he is anything other than a brutal dictator, and clearly not a nut case. \*\* There is no evidence to believe Hitler was insane. (Drug addict and racist, yes, believer in pseudoscience, yes, godawful military tactician, yes, but not insane.) The same can be said of Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot. (Why did we not fight a major offensive against Pol, who percentagewise killed more of his own people than anybody in history? Because he had nothing we needed, save for some prime spots on the opium trade, but that would be a major hijack.) Insanity isn’t required to make a major military blunder or to wreak irreversible havoc. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/53 "2002-09-07T20:42:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > \*\* > I will now trudge to the river, there to perform the Ancient Tasmanian Ritual of Self-Abasement, accompanied by a Chorus of Bitter Virgins, intoning dirges of Woe and Humiliation. \*\* Please bring me a nut log on your way back if you pass a Stuckeys. (According to Heloise, cinnamon and sugar mixed together will make a virgin less bitter, though it didn’t work for Isaac Newton.) ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/54 "2002-09-07T21:11:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > **Israel is still not part of the US and I am not sure it qualifies as a neigbor of Iraq but I’ll give you they may be concerned.** Neither were Canada, Europe, or Japan a part of the US, yet American resources were used to protect them during 40+ years of the Cold War. Shouldn’t we be equally vigilant in defending our ally Israel? As for them not being a neighbor of Iraq, they do not share a border, but are definitely threatened. Remember the 39 Scud missile attacks on Israel during the Gulf War? I’m not saying that the defense of Israel is the only reason to attack Iraq, but it is A reason. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/55 "2002-09-07T21:31:43Z")
milroyj wrote: “I’m not saying that the defense of Israel is the only reason to attack Iraq, but it is A reason.” On a similar note to what milroyj wrote, I’m not saying that gas prices are the only reason to attack either, but they are not a minor concern (which they are so often addressed as being in the “give up the SUVs and you won’t have to worry about it” oversimplified media and blog postings). ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/56 "2002-09-07T21:36:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sampiro \* > \*\* > There are more than one hundred “suitcase nukes” missing from the Soviet arsenal. Is it not conceivable that an oil rich ruler who has been thwarted in his own attempts to build nuclear weapons is the owner of one or more? \*\* _Assuming_ that : -The “suitcases” actually exist -That they’re actually missing -That they’re still in operating order (they would need maintenance) -That someone else than the russian can operate them Then, indeed, it’s conceivable that an oil rich ruler could have gotten his hands on them (say Saudi Arabia) or that a powerful communist ruler hass gotten his hands on them (say, North-Korea) or that the leader of a former USSR republic has gotten his hands on them (say Kazaksthan), etc…It’s even conceivable that an existing nuclear power, the USA, or China, or Israel, etc…has them… ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/57 "2002-09-07T21:41:06Z")
clairobscur wrote: “It’s even conceivable that an existing nuclear power, the USA, or China, or Israel, etc…has them…” It’s also conceivable that Oprah Winfrey has them, but I seriously doubt it. More likely they’re in the hands of somebody unable to visibly construct nuclear weaponry. While Saddam’s far from the only likely candidate, he is A likely candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/58 "2002-09-07T21:49:28Z")
Oops! Premature post (it happens to all men at some time). "\*Assuming that -The “suitcases” actually exist " Since Russian officials attest to it (and they tend to keep records on stuff like that) and how to deal with the devices has been addressed in the House of Reps., it would seem a safe assumption. Of course, do any of us “really” exist, or is DesCartes just having a reaction to some bad cheese? “-That they’re actually missing” I see this as one and the same with the above. “-That they’re still in operating order (they would need maintenance)” Iraq has built nuclear reactors; they obviously have people equipped to maintain them. “-That someone else than the russian can operate them” That part’s true. A Cyrillic handbook can be a Russian bear to read. But I’m pretty sure that operability was a dealbreaker at the time of sale. (Plus, Iraq has purchased missile guidance systems from Russia, so I’m reasonably sure they know what they’re doing.) ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/59 "2002-09-07T22:57:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Since Russian officials attest to it (and they tend to keep records on stuff like that) A minor point, but they don’t keep **good** records, and never have. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372/60 "2002-09-07T23:39:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sampiro \* > \*\*clairobscur wrote: “It’s even conceivable that an existing nuclear power, the USA, or China, or Israel, etc…has them…” > > It’s also conceivable that Oprah Winfrey has them, but I seriously doubt it. More likely they’re in the hands of somebody unable to visibly construct nuclear weaponry. \*\* Why so? According to you, USSR build them and it seems to me they were able to visibly construct nuclear weaponry…If the USSR found they could be of some use, why not China? > [@](#): > > While Saddam’s far from the only likely candidate, he is A likely candidate. \*\* Yes. One amongst a hundred or so…Sorry, I won’t buy arguments like “since it’s conceivable that Irak has done this or that, we should attack them”, especially when you refer to things as unlikely as having nuclear suitcases. Because this could apply to half the world, at the very least… I won’t adress your points concerning the likehood that the “nuclear suitcases” are still around, since there has been several threads on this topic in the past… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-iraq-ever-done-anything-to-the-usa/127372.md?page=4)