# Has Israel denied the Palestinians statehood? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 18, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977 "2003-05-18T01:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977/41 "2003-05-18T18:09:12Z")
Well the page is trying to promote a revisionist view of history, also I extremely doubt it’s claims about Hafia, as Hafia has always had the largest Arab population in Israel, so it’s claims that 98% of it’s Arab population (4000 - 2000 out 62,000) left in 1948 is more than slightly suspect. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977/42 "2003-05-18T18:11:21Z")
Sorry that should be: “all but 2000-4000 out of 62000” ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977/43 "2003-05-18T18:13:07Z")
Sorry got the number wrong 4000-6000. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977/44 "2003-05-18T18:14:26Z")
Sure the page has a bias (what page on this issue doesn’t), but that number is cited from The Economist, which is why I felt confident reporting it. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977/45 "2003-05-18T18:23:33Z")
Here is a little bit about the flight from Hafia from a less partizan organisation: [http://www.mideastweb.org/haifa1948.htm](http://www.mideastweb.org/haifa1948.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977/46 "2003-05-19T01:06:46Z")
I’d still like to say-what is the difference between the Israelies kicking the Palestinians off of their land, and taking control of it, and the English going into Ireland and taking Irish land from the Irish? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977/47 "2003-05-19T01:28:51Z")
Not much, except the English don’t have the French directly on their borders, with weapons aimed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977/48 "2003-05-19T04:41:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > \*\*Well , let me give you the summary: > > (a) UN ain’t a fucking nation, and it ain’t a fucking independent body. > > Understood that part? > > (b) UN only can take action when authorized, in terms of forcing other nations to comply that means Sec. Council. > > Understood that part? > > © The US regularly vetoes virtually all Sec Council motions on Israel. > > Understood that part? > > (d) As the UN has no independent facilities and as there is not Sec. Council rulings to force complaince, (see © above) there is no leverage on Israel. > > So, if Mace can come up with some explanation of what the fuck he thinks UN Leadership is, perhaps we can think about the relevance of his question, insofar as it implies an independent capacity on the part of the UN to take action when the US blocks such action. > > Got that now, Mace? > > But the UN has made efforts to provide brokering for putting in place deals, e.g. post Oslo and Madrid. \*\* I think your facts are screwey God. [http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/special-edition/terrorism50/unresolu.htm](http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/special-edition/terrorism50/unresolu.htm) [http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html](http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html) 65 Resolutions condemning Israel have been passed, 35 were vetoed by the US. Israel is already in violation of 30+ resolution, turkey in violation of 20+. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the US realizes Israel is ganged up on in the UN and offers its assistance & protection from politically motivated attac? [http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/unisrael.html](http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/unisrael.html) Among other things, 26% of the UNHCR resolutions involve Israel. in a world filled with countries like Burma, Iraq, North Korea, etc. that speaks for the credibility of the UN in regards to Israel. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977/49 "2003-05-19T05:14:27Z")
There’s a difference, Calc, between resolutions passed by the Security Council and by the … forget the word. UN as a whole. Only the first kind have real weight. Guess which kind pass and get promptly ignored? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977/50 "2003-05-19T12:21:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Calculus of Logic \* > I think your facts are screwey God. > > [http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/special-edition/terrorism50/unresolu.htm](http://www.muslimedia.com/archives/special-edition/terrorism50/unresolu.htm) > > [http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html](http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html) > > 65 Resolutions condemning Israel have been passed, 35 were vetoed by the US. Very good, you have provided better substance than my initial post. Quite true, my initial statement in re regularly vetoing all resolutions was an overstatement. Impressionistic error Now, I would note a pattern among the Sec Counc. resolutions. Notes and calling upon Israel pass, those requiring do not. The US vetos. > [@](#): > > Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the US realizes Israel is ganged up on in the UN and offers its assistance & protection from politically motivated attac? My point in re Mace’s silly question was not to argue whether the US policy of largley preventing UN measures imposing anything on Israel was right or wrong - sometimes it is in my view, sometimes not, but rather to emphasize that the UN is not some supra national entity that can operate independent of the US or other major powers. The US, for distinct policy reasons, has largley chosen to sideline the UN in dealing with occupation and Palestinian issues. That is the point. Snide questions about what the UN “Leadership” has been doing reflect a rather profound misunderstanding of the situation. The UN is a venue and a tool for legitimating in the international community national efforts. Questions as if the UN has some independent actionable capacity are simply ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977/51 "2003-05-20T05:27:55Z")
Ther Palestinians think, probably rightly, that the settlers are there to wipe them out. God forbid they are not allowed to defend themselves with what little they got. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977/52 "2003-05-20T06:03:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*I’d still like to say-what is the difference between the Israelies kicking the Palestinians off of their land, and taking control of it, and the English going into Ireland and taking Irish land from the Irish? \*\* Well, for one, no Irishman ever proposed kicking the English out of England. For that matter, no Tibetan ever threatened Beijing, and no Algerian ever claimed that France was Muslim territory. Also, the UK isn’t surrounded by 3 billion angry Celts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-israel-denied-the-palestinians-statehood/175977.md?page=2)