# Has it been established what laws were allegedly broken during the 2016 campaign? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 9, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805 "2017-07-09T02:45:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/1 "2017-07-09T02:45:34Z")
The press is full of innuendo that somehow a crime was committed during the 2017 Presidential campaign. That campaign insiders allegedly met with various people in Russia. There’s never any hard facts. Special counsel Mueller is investigating and I haven’t seen what charges are being considered. Or even why the 2016 R. Campaign is being accused of any improprieties. Can we get to the heart of the matter? What crimes may have been committed? Please, set aside politics and focus on existing Federal campaign law. It’s my understanding that campaigns use the services of many advisers in various capacities. Candidates want to get elected and seek out the best people available to work in or perhaps consult with the campaign. James Carville is an example of a consultant that has worked in various campaigns around the world. AFAIK it’s not unusual and completely ethical and legal. He’s offering his expertise to campaigns that he chooses to support. I’d assume many other political consultants offer their services internationally. Is there any law that specifically prohibits US campaigns from using foreign consultants? > **[James Carville](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Carville)** > > Chester James Carville Jr. (born October 25, 1944) is an American political consultant, author, and occasional actor who has strategized for candidates for public office in the United States and in at least 23 nations abroad. A Democrat, he is a pundit in U.S. elections who appears frequently on cable news programs, podcasts, and public speeches. > Nicknamed the "Ragin' Cajun", Carville gained national attention for his work as a lead strategist in Bill Clinton's winning 1992 Presidential campaign... > [@](#): > > After 1992 Carville stopped working on domestic campaigns, stating that he would bring unneeded publicity. He then worked on a number of foreign campaigns, including those of Tony Blair – then Prime Minister of the United Kingdom – during the 2001 general election; Ehud Barak of Israel’s Labor Party (at the suggestion of Clinton, who had grown frustrated with Benjamin Netanyahu’s intransigence in the peace process) in the 1999 Knesset election; and the Liberal Party of Canada. In 2002, Carville helped Bolivian Gonzalo Sánchez de Lozada win the presidency in Bolivia, while working as a Greenberg Carville Shrum (GCS) strategist. This was portrayed in the documentary Our Brand Is Crisis. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/2 "2017-07-09T04:50:11Z")
Let special counsel Mueller do his job and present the findings. The issue is not that members of the campaign may have foreign contacts. The key issue is failure to disclosure those contacts or meetings (ahem Jeff Sessions ahem) or being on the payroll of foreign companies/governments (ahem Michael Flynn ahem).Simplistically, you can lobby for the Russian government, but you have to disclose this is what you’re doing and what you get paid to do. Paul Manafort springs to mind as someone who was getting paid by foreign money, and only decided to disclose this what a month ago? Mr Mueller has some tax and finance wizards on his team, and the power to look at Trump’s personal and corporate tax records. Follow the money. See if he turns up an arsenal of guns behind all the smoke that’s clouding the skies. If he doesn’t, then he doesn’t. Remember, Tricky Dick Nixon went down for the cover up. Trump has 3 potential issues. 1. He personally was involved with Russian collusion. That is high treason. 2. His campaign leaders colluded with Russia. Not sure where that falls in the crime area for Trump personally if he was not involved/cannot be proven he was personally involved 3. Was a cover up that Trump was privy to or a participant in? This took down Nixon… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/3 "2017-07-09T05:01:04Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > 1. He personally was involved with Russian collusion. That is high treason. It probably wouldn’t ever be treason (“high treason” isn’t a thing in the US), but it could be some kind of criminal conspiracy. Even then it would depend on what exactly was discussed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/4 "2017-07-09T05:01:19Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > 1. He personally was involved with Russian collusion. That is high treason. This is GQ. That is a factually incorrect statement. The crime of “treason,” consists of either levying war against the government, or giving aid or comfort to the government’s enemies. An “enemy,” for the purposes of the law, is only against whom a legally declared state of war exists. Haupt v. United States, 330 U.S. 631 (1947); Cramer v. United States, 325 U.S. 1 (1945). Do you have a cite for your contrary claim? ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/5 "2017-07-09T09:38:04Z")
Committees by their nature take time, it can be fully expected there will be a semi-definitive interim report out by 2024. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/6 "2017-07-09T10:03:19Z")
Well it is looking more and more likely the potential that Loretta Lynch hindered an investigation and obstructed justice. Seems the Comey public testimony let that one out of the bag. I believe she will be testifying somewhere soon. Then there is the unmasking of many individuals identities by the Obama Administration intelligence agencies at the request of Administration officials. That is clearly against the laws of the US. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/7 "2017-07-09T11:01:45Z")
It seems both campaigns may have broken a few laws. ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/8 "2017-07-09T11:54:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It seems both campaigns may have broken a few laws. Perhaps. But as I view the landscape at the moment those are the two with the highest potential which is as the OP asked for. So far I not see anything on the Repub side. Oh I know every Dem and liberal in the land so wishes it was true but so far, and despite what they say, there is no there there at the moment. May change in the future but not at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/9 "2017-07-09T12:08:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **davida03801** : > > Then there is the unmasking of many individuals identities by the Obama Administration intelligence agencies at the request of Administration officials. That is clearly against the laws of the US. Any cite on this one? The last I heard of anything like this was Valerie Plame. And don’t forget income tax evasion via channeling money through a “nonprofit organization” that wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/10 "2017-07-09T14:43:19Z")
Well, from doing Campaign Finance reports, I am required to report as “In-Kind Donations” anything provided to a campaign that is not paid for, but has a value. Like hosting a house party to meet the candidate, where the hosts provide coffee & desserts to attendees. If they spend more than $20 on that, I have to report the value as an in-kind contribution to the campaign. So the Russians who sent all those fake social media communications were paid directly or indirectly by Putin, thus that would be an in-kind contribution to the Trump campaign – but he probably didn’t report that, so filed false Campaign Finance Reports. Minor compared to treason, but clearly a crime. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/11 "2017-07-09T15:39:07Z")
First off, this is not primarily about CRIMES. It is ingenuous and dishonest to try to frame the entire situation as being either a criminal concern or not. It is unfortunately not a CRIME to make an accusation for the sake of political opportunity, without having or presenting any evidence at all, but it is often despicable and dishonest. Trump and many of his supporters have done exactly that, repeating again and again that MILLIONS of illegal aliens voted in 2016. Manipulating voters by trickery isn’t illegal, but it damages democracy, and it results in people with poor judgement coming to be in power. Refusing to admit reality isn’t a crime, but it’s tremendously important to the health of the United States. And Trump could be SAID to have broken the law many times, before and after winning the election, because he likes to “jokingly” encourage enemies to break into our databases and reveal secrets, and to “jokingly” encourage his supporters to commit violent acts against other Americans who are LEGALLY exercising their rights. ``` As someone else said above, investigations are in progress. If you want to claim that no crimes were committed because none have officially been announced yet, then you have to agree that Clinton did absolutely nothing wrong either, since no crimes were announced in any of the investigations that were conducted about her. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/12 "2017-07-09T16:19:49Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > It is unfortunately not a CRIME to make an accusation for the sake of political opportunity, without having or presenting any evidence at all, but it is often despicable and dishonest. Is it? Then Democrats have been despicable and dishonest about Trump for quite a while now. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/13 "2017-07-09T16:48:47Z")
Clearly emails show that the DNC conspired to get Bernie Sanders out of the race for the Democratic nomination to make way for their candidate of choice, Hillary Clinton. > **[Here are the latest, most damaging things in the DNC’s leaked emails](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/24/here-are-the-latest-most-damaging-things-in-the-dncs-leaked-emails/?utm_term=.566926d48362)** > > The worst of the worst. This may not be a crime, but it certainly is against the laws that govern the DNC. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/14 "2017-07-09T17:53:21Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > So far I not see anything on the Repub side. Unless you’re Mueller, that’s pretty much irrelevant. We’re all welcome to make our half (or third or tenth) informed guesses but none of us are federal investigators currently looking into this event. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/15 "2017-07-09T17:59:35Z")
There is no way this one can stay in General Questions. Moved to IMHO. Shout out to Bricker for at least offering a factual answer. **samclem** , moderator. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/16 "2017-07-09T18:14:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is GQ. > > That is a factually incorrect statement. The crime of “treason,” consists of either levying war against the government, or giving aid or comfort to the government’s enemies. An “enemy,” for the purposes of the law, is only against whom a legally declared state of war exists. > > Haupt v. United States, 330 U.S. 631 (1947); Cramer v. United States, 325 U.S. 1 (1945). This is also why the Rosenbergs weren’t charged with treason, but espionage, because, while the Soviet Union was undoubtedly an “enemy” in terms of the common term, they weren’t an "enemy in that war wasn’t declared against them. It would have been interesting if the Adam Gadahn case had gone to trial. Gadahn was an American citizen who was a member of Al Qaeda. He had been indicted for treason by federal prosecutors in California, but then was killed in a drone strike. If he had been put on trial, it would have been an interesting test case…can you commit treason by helping a non-state actor that the US is in conflict with? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/17 "2017-07-09T18:15:51Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Then there is the unmasking of many individuals identities by the Obama Administration intelligence agencies at the request of Administration officials. That is clearly against the laws of the US. Actually, it isn’t. “Unmasking” is a term of art within the intelligence community, and you would do well to understand what it means. There is an enormous difference between “unmasking” and “leaking.” “Leaking” is a crime. Susan Rice was doing her job as National Security Advisor when she asked agencies submitting reports to unmask names of Americans in order to understand the context of the reports she was reading. Unmasking the names is not her decision to make. It is the decision of the agency that submits the report. Any unmasking that is done is always done by the agency, not an individual. Had Susan Rice (or anyone else entitled to learn of unmasked individuals) then revealed that classified information to someone not authorized to see it, that would have been “leaking.” If you believe leaking is what someone within the Obama Administration did, then it’s on you to provide some evidence for that. Your side likes to imbue words with nefarious meanings, such as implying that “unmasking” is an illegal, devious practice. You fall for it every time. To clarify what **Chronos** said, Cheney/Libby _leaked_ Valerie Plame’s name. _That_ is actually illegal – which is why Libby was successfully prosecuted for it. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/18 "2017-07-09T18:44:33Z")
Shout out to **aspenglow** for keeping the spirit of answering with facts, even though I moved this from General Questions. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/19 "2017-07-09T23:07:21Z")
Trying to figure out what laws were allegedly broken make this never ending news story extremely frustrating. At times I have to check the calendar and see if it’s 1970 and soviet premier Brezhnev is still in power. A lot of big companies have invested in Russia. Contacts between US citizens and Russians happen daily. It’s not sinister. Obviously this story may not end until Mueller announces his findings. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805/20 "2017-07-09T23:19:10Z")
I do appreciate the effort to nail down what charges may be eventually come from the story. It’s encouraging that Mueller is focusing on the investigation and avoiding the media spotlight. I’ll support whatever conclusion he makes. There was clearly some interference in our election by Russia. I see that as nothing new. The CIA has a long history of trying to manipulate foreign governments. Reagan love for the Contras in Nicaragua lead to a scandal. I’d be surprised if any government hasn’t tried to manipulate events (in their favor) in other nations. If either campaign was involved it will be uncovered in Mueller’s investigation. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-it-been-established-what-laws-were-allegedly-broken-during-the-2016-campaign/790805.md?page=2)