# Has Jesus' exsistance ever been challenged? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 14, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-jesus-exsistance-ever-been-challenged/234266 "2004-03-14T19:42:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-jesus-exsistance-ever-been-challenged/234266/41 "2004-03-15T12:51:50Z")
[QUOTE=Ranchoth] From what I understand, while we’re pretty sure there was a guy named Jesus (Well, “Yeshua bar Joseph,” really.) who founded a religion (or a cult) in the early 1st century A.D., many elements of the stories of his life seem highly suspect…especially the parts that bear a [suspicious resemblence to elements of Mithraism and Zoroastrianism](http://www.geocities.com/inquisitive79/godmen.html), which predate Christianity by hundreds of years. One of the [prophecies of Zarathustra](http://www.xs4all.nl/~mke/zarathushtra.htm) even involves a messianic figure, born of a virgin, who’s birth is signalled by a star falling from the sky. QUOTE] a quick check confirmed my inititial impression. That site is full of b-s. Here is a christian site [http://www.tektonics.org/tekton\_04\_02\_04.html](http://www.tektonics.org/tekton_04_02_04.html) that debunks those claims (I am not a C but the scholarship in the C site is 100 x better than the one you cited) ---
**Author:** ![Sergio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Sergio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sergio)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-jesus-exsistance-ever-been-challenged/234266/42 "2004-03-15T12:52:34Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Actually, the earliest documents call him “Yeschu ha Notzri”, I think – translated as “Jesus the Nazorean”. Some folks claim that there is no early evidence for the existence of a town called “Nazareth”, and that “Jesus of Nazareth” was “derived” from this name. All sorts of ideas as to what “nazorean” might mean have been proposed, including that it was the name of a political party or religious group. > > Jesus is also called “the son of Mary”, but not “bar Joseph”. Those in favor of the Biblical accounts say that this is in recognition of his being the Son of God. Others point to scurrilous rumors that Jesus was illegitimate, fathered by a Roman soldier named Panthera. This is definitely one of those things they didn’t teach me about in Catholic school. I first learned of it in a footnote to T.H. White’s translation The Bestiary. For fuller details, see Morton Smith’s **Jesus the Magician**. But read Smith with a critical eye, and more than a grain of salt. In fact, that’s preetty good advice for reading anyone suggested in this thread. Paul, who wrote the first Christian works, does not mention the life of the historical Jesus, only the teachings of an ethereal Christ. The gospels, written much later, try to reconcile the teachings of Paul with the prophecies of Judaism and build a figure consistent with both. There is evidence of a 2nd century BCE, named Yoshua bar Panthera, who could have served as model for Jesus the son of Mary. ---
**Author:** ![Achilles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dc4da7/32.png) [@Achilles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achilles)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-jesus-exsistance-ever-been-challenged/234266/43 "2004-03-15T13:14:43Z")
Suetonius in his “The Twelve Caesars” also mentions him. ---
**Author:** ![Sergio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Sergio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sergio)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-jesus-exsistance-ever-been-challenged/234266/44 "2004-03-15T13:36:52Z")
> [@Achilles](#): > > Suetonius in his “The Twelve Caesars” also mentions him. > [@](#): > > Suetonius and Jesus > In his The Lives of the Caesars, Suetonius, writing around 120 CE, states: > > ``` > "Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Emperor Claudius in 49 CE] expelled them from Rome." (Claudius 5.25.4) > > ``` > > Occasionally this passage is cited as evidence for Jesus’s historicity. However, there are serious problems with this interpretation: > > 1. “Chrestus” is the correct Latin form of an actual Greek name, and is not obviously a mispelling of “Christus”, meaning Christ. > > 2. The passage seems to imply that there was actually someone named Chrestus at Rome at the time. This rules out a reference to Jesus. > > 3. Even if Suetonius is referring to Christians in Rome, this only confirms the existence of Christians, not the existence of Jesus. There is no doubt that there were Christians in Rome during the first century CE–this of course does NOT imply that Jesus actually lived during the first half of this century. > > Thus, Suetonius fails to confirm the historicity of Jesus. This quote comes from [http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/scott\_oser/hojfaq.html](http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/scott_oser/hojfaq.html) where you can find references to Josephus, Tacitus and others. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-jesus-exsistance-ever-been-challenged/234266/45 "2004-03-15T13:43:00Z")
This topic has been discussed several times recently, so I’ll close this thread and direct further comment to the earlier GD thread linked to by **clairobscur** and the GQ thread linked to by **Pushkin** above. bibliophage moderator GQ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-jesus-exsistance-ever-been-challenged/234266.md?page=2)