# Has John McCain Lost His Mind? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524 "2013-05-28T06:02:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/41 "2013-05-28T17:17:32Z")
**Human Action** , you are suggesting the president’s war powers are checked by congress. If a president unilaterally enters into an agreement with NATO or the UN he is not being checked by congress. So to claim Serbia or Libya are not examples of unlimited executive power is a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/42 "2013-05-28T17:18:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This is not “McCain’s favorite group”, it’s Obama’s favorite group. As your cite says: > > So, McCain is no more dealing with al Qaeda than Obama is. > > It’s time for the OP to come back into this thread and retract his erroneous statement. Oh i was under the impression two wrongs do not make a right. Which statement in the OP do you consider erroneous, the Alzheimer’s one? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/43 "2013-05-28T17:25:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Got a cite for Russia and China saying to was OK to bomb Serbia? You’re probably thinking of NATO. Well, the 1995 bombing was done under the auspices of [Resolution 836](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_836), and UN forces participated via artillery strikes. The 1999 bombings were not, so if that’s what you were referring to, then I cheerfully withdraw my remark. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/44 "2013-05-28T17:25:15Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Oh i was under the impression two wrongs do not make a right. > > Which statement in the OP do you consider erroneous, the Alzheimer’s one? Your six degrees of Kevin Bacon does not an “affiliation” make. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/45 "2013-05-28T17:30:28Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > **Human Action** , you are suggesting the president’s war powers are checked by congress. If a president unilaterally enters into an agreement with NATO or the UN he is not being checked by congress. So to claim Serbia or Libya are not examples of unlimited executive power is a stretch. What I wrote was that “the President really can’t do much damage on their own in our system.” Acting through the UN or NATO isn’t “on [his] own”, and Congress could always pull the U.S. out of the UN or NATO through legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/46 "2013-05-28T17:37:06Z")
> [@GomiBoy](#): > > I’m not saying any were unsupported by Congress, as they clearly were, just that none were a formal ‘declaration of War’. > > As I understand it, an AUMF is Congress supporting the Executive who’s already decided to f\*\*\* somebody up. A Declaration of War is Congress _telling_ the Exec to go f\*\*\* somebody up. The phrase “declaration of war” is not defined either in the Constitution or in US law. As far as the Constitution is concerned, an act of Congress giving the president authority to deploy military assets against an enemy force is perfectly on the up-and-up regardless of what you call it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/47 "2013-05-28T17:40:33Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > What I wrote was that “the President really can’t do much damage on their own in our system.” Acting through the UN or NATO isn’t “on [his] own”… This is really turning into a hijack, but let me just say that “in our system” that is absolutely acting on his own since neither of those bodies is intrinsic to “our system”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/48 "2013-05-28T17:44:12Z")
AlQueda was born of an extreme anti-Shia sect of Islam, Hezbollah is aligned with Shia, hence, their connection to Iran. In this case, the enemy of our enemy is not our friend, nor even less our enemy. At my best estimation, Syria is spinning out of control into sectarian horror, and the antipathy of all sides towards us render us moot, there is little if anything we can do to help, much we can do to harm. If anyone has a plan that America could put into action that would lessen the bloodshed and misery, let him come forth soonest. I see no reason at all to believe that John McCain is that man. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/49 "2013-05-28T17:45:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This is really turning into a hijack, but let me just say that “in our system” that is absolutely acting on his own since neither of those bodies is intrinsic to “our system”. An unplanned hijack, I assure you. While those bodies are not intrinsic to our system, our membership in them is, via the United Nations Participation Act of 1945, and the ratification of the North Atlantic Treaty in 1949, both of which are subject to repeal if Congress believes the President is using them as an end-run around the limits of his power. This makes the UN and NATO part of our system, in effect, albeit indirectly. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/50 "2013-05-28T18:10:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Um, how is this different from the way McCain has behaved his whole career? He’s always been a fixture of Sunday talk shows, and he’s always played a big role in conducting foreign policy. Senators have the right to play this role and have done so ever since the US took on a global role. > > He also warned weeks ago that this war could destabilize Lebanon. That has started to happen now, with Hezbollah’s interference in the Syrian war now being out in the open. > > So yeah, we shouldn’t get involved, just so long as you’re cool with the Middle East descending into chaos, and so long as you accept responsibility for the decision to allow that to happen. He also used to make sense most of the time. Predicting destabilization of Lebanon is like predicting that winter will have snow. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/51 "2013-05-28T18:37:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, McCain is no more dealing with al Qaeda than Obama is. I think that somewhat ignores the context here. The dispute between McCain and Obama is whether to give arms to the FSA, the group with whom McCain is meeting. And the main reason they have this dispute is because the FSA is in the same anti-Assad coalition as Al-Nusra. So while Obama’s policy involves “dealing with” the same group McCain is meeting with, McCain is advocating that we arm that group and Obama is advocating that we not arm them because it might help Al Qaeda affiliates. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/52 "2013-05-28T18:53:55Z")
McCain has been undercutting Obama on foreign policy for a long time, and he was doing it to Bush before him. It’s just what he does as a Maverick ™. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/53 "2013-05-28T19:10:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > AlQueda was born of an extreme anti-Shia sect of Islam, Hezbollah is aligned with Shia, hence, their connection to Iran. In this case, the enemy of our enemy is not our friend, nor even less our enemy. > > At my best estimation, Syria is spinning out of control into sectarian horror, and the antipathy of all sides towards us render us moot, there is little if anything we can do to help, much we can do to harm. > > If anyone has a plan that America could put into action that would lessen the bloodshed and misery, let him come forth soonest. I see no reason at all to believe that John McCain is that man. Well said. In my mind’s eye, I can call up an image of a photograph of Dana Rohrabacher sitting in a cave with Taliban-related mujahideen. I think they were making s’mores, but the photo _was_ taken a LONG time ago. I might have mentally inserted that interpretation on my own. Point is, I never want to see anything similar starring Maverick-Boy. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/54 "2013-05-28T19:19:46Z")
Just had to post [this](http://www.theonion.com/articles/family-concerned-after-john-mccain-wanders-into-sy,32601/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=standard-post:headline:default)from America’s finest news source. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/55 "2013-05-28T19:55:50Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I think that somewhat ignores the context here. The dispute between McCain and Obama is whether to give arms to the FSA, the group with whom McCain is meeting. And the main reason they have this dispute is because the FSA is in the same anti-Assad coalition as Al-Nusra. So while Obama’s policy involves “dealing with” the same group McCain is meeting with, McCain is advocating that we arm that group and Obama is advocating that we not arm them because it might help Al Qaeda affiliates. Well, that’s not just a dispute between Obama and McCain, but just to be clear: MacCain hasn’t given anyone any arms, and he’s just talking to the same people that Obama is talking to. I was addressing the inaccuracy in the OP, not making a judgement about who should be giving whom what. My own preference would be to stay out of it and not give arms to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/56 "2013-05-28T20:03:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Congresscritters go on fact finding missions overseas all the time. How is this any different from dozens of other trips made by members of both parties? Of course. (McCain got somewhat nearer actual danger than most such trips do, but not so much as to stand out in any long view.) It should go without saying that all such excursions are, at least in part, “politicking.” All public acts of politicians are that. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/57 "2013-05-28T20:25:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, that’s not just a dispute between Obama and McCain, but just to be clear: > > MacCain hasn’t given anyone any arms, and he’s just talking to the same people that Obama is talking to. I was addressing the inaccuracy in the OP, not making a judgement about who should be giving whom what. My own preference would be to stay out of it and not give arms to anyone. McCain is not himself delivering arms, we assume. But it is an equally reasonable assumption that he’s meeting with the group in an effort to further his own policy beliefs–namely, that we ought to arm the group–by lending more exposure and credibility to their leader and giving McCain the ability to say he’s looked them in the eye or whatever he’s going to come back and say on the Sunday shows. In this sense, both in the purpose of the trip and its effect, his “dealing with” the FSA is materially different from Obama’s dealing. Thus, to the extent that the FSA can be fairly criticized for being too close to Al-Nusra (an Al Qaeda affiliate), McCain can be fairly criticized for cozying up to them in a way Obama has not. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/58 "2013-05-28T20:30:44Z")
Sarah drove him nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/59 "2013-05-28T20:31:56Z")
He’s a Senator. He’s supposed to be furthering his policy beliefs. Leaving aside the _content_ of those beliefs, which anyone is of course free to disagree with and oppose, what precisely is the objection to his methods? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524/60 "2013-05-28T20:41:51Z")
For one thing, what the hell do we do if somebody takes him hostage? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-john-mccain-lost-his-mind/659524.md?page=4)