Has Kristi Noem commited impeachable offenses?

Huh, I did not know that. In any case it matches what other sources said. Do you have a cite that disagrees with them?

Here- this place is considered unbiased

Much of the controversy surrounding the Impeachment Clause has revolved around the meaning of “high Crimes and Misdemeanors,” a phrase that is unique to the impeachment context. The Clause seems to rule out the possibility of Congress impeaching and removing officials simply for incompetence or general unfitness for office. Impeachments are not a remedy for government officials who are simply bad at their jobs. It is a remedy for abuses of public office. But the line between general unfitness and abuse of office can be blurry…While still serving as a member of the House of Representatives, Gerald Ford once said that impeachable offenses are whatever a majority of the House considered them to be. T

and here

James Madison explained the requirement for impeachment during the debates of the Constitutional Convention of 1787: “[S]ome provision should be made for defending the community against the incapacity, negligence, or perfidy of the chief magistrate. He might pervert his administration into a scheme of peculation or oppression. He might betray his trust to foreign powers.”

Alexander Hamilton explained in The Federalist Papers (No. 65) that impeachment of the president should take place for “offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated political, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to society itself.”

And, in The Federalist Papers (No. 70), Hamilton further explained: “Men in public trust will much oftener act in such a manner as to render them unworthy of being any longer trusted, than in such a manner as to make them obnoxious (subject) to legal punishment.”

There is a wapo article behind a paywall

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/09/27/how-founding-fathers-saw-impeachment-high-crimes-misdemeanors/

Here is a university

The deliberations that took place in Philadelphia during the Summer of 1787 involved the most esteemed delegates to the Constitutional Convention (aka founding fathers) – Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin, Elbridge Gerry, James Wilson, Edmund Randolph, and George Mason. They worked hard to craft an impeachment provision (high crimes and misdemeanors) that would collectively reflect an abuse of power (“misuse of official powers”; “neglect of duty”; “maladministration or corruption”; “malpractice or neglect of duty”. The Founders saw to it that such abuses of power would be labeled as high crimes and misdemeanors, which was consistent with traditional terminology in English law and were included in the Constitution as grounds for impeachment. But they also included as impeachable offenses two wrongdoings had traditionally been considered crimes against the state: treason and bribery. .. Many who are offended by the current president’s action are concerned that his transgressions do not rise to the level of an impeachable offense. In their continuing search for legal sufficiency, they would do well to reflect on the words of Hamilton, who wrote in Federalist 65 that:

“…impeachable offenses were “those offences which proceed from the misconduct of public men; they are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated political, as they relate chiefly to injuries done to the society itself.”

I do not see anything in any of those other cites that disagree strongly with my original cite.

Do you?

IMHO,She ought to be impeached for cosplaying as an ice cop, or whatever it is she’s doing.

Suddenly, she’s always wearing a ball cap, with her hair sreamung down, and toting a giant gun.

Not only is her whole schtic gross and shameful (ie) using imprisoned imigrants as set pieces in her show, she is impersonating an officer.

She does love her cosplay.

Considering the second impeachment ever was of Judge Pickering and he was convicted for insanity, I will not consider this a reliable source.

I would consider insanity to be “general unfitness for office”.

Looking for a dog and a quarry.

Depends on the insanity.

Yup, and Pickering was removed simply for it.

Which your cite specifically says impeachment is not to be used for. So do you agree with your own cite or not?

My cite is talking about what the Writers of the Constitution intended. Obviously in Impeachment, Congress has not been following those intentions- since the Writers did not put them down clearly in the document.

I told you what the Realpolitik definition if “High Crimes and Misdemeanors” was and you objected.

I answered your questions three ways-
From what we know of the intentions of the Writers of the Constitution has Noem committed impeachable offenses? No.

Under the current Realpolitik House definition has she? Yes.

Should she be removed from Office- Yes.

But you objected to how the House actually considers Impeachable offenses.

So, what exactly do you want?

Oh my mistake. I didn’t know they interviewed the Founding Fathers.
Incidentally the impeachment was in 1803 at the behest of Thomas Jefferson. Out of that Senate, only 7 of the Senators agreed with the idea that insanity was NOT grounds for dismissal. But that was 1803, what would Jefferson, a majority of the House and 2/3 of the Senate know about what the Founding Fathers intended.

I deny your antecedent.

Again, not a consideration in the thread despite you repeatedly dragging it in like a dog with a squirrel carcass.

An answer to the question, has she committed an actual high crime or misdemenor that is
Not based on “It’s what the House says it is as a political definition.”
Not based on a cite that is obviously wrong.

I did not object to it; yet again we all know that is the reality. The question was excluding that from this thread did she commit any real crime. So can you please limit yourself to answering THAT question (see above) and not change the hypothetical.

The hypothetical mentions “a normal Senate,” but does not define that. Unanswerable.

A Senate that takes it’s jury power seriously and does not rule based solely on political rationales. Hence my limiting it to a real crime as previous Senates (not counting MAGA-led impeachments) have used crimes actually committed as the standard (and uses a higher standard for Presidents).

Impeachment is not a criminal trial.

It is not an Article III trial, but it is still a trial of (supposed) crimes i.e. high crimes and misdemeanors.

The Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. When sitting for that purpose, they shall be on oath or affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two thirds of the members present.

Also the Senate rules governing the process is called “RULES OF PROCEDURE AND PRACTICE IN THE SENATE WHEN SITTING ON IMPEACHMENT TRIALS” and it is called a trial many times within there. Call it an Article I criminal trial.

Those cites quote The Federalist Papers. Those are the direct words of Hamilton.

Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence (with help). he wasnt at the Constitutional Convention- he was Minister to france at the time- but he did write letters to & Fro with James Madison. In fact Jefferson’s letter of Dec 1787 contains a long list of objections to the document, and Jefferson proposed a Bill of Rights, which was added in 1791.

And altho there is some overlap between those who signed the Declaration and the Writers , the two groups are not the same. Madison, Jay and Hamilton were the primary movers for the Constitution, but none signed the Declaration. Of course, those three are also considered Founding Fathers also.

So, tell me, what did they intend? Can you find a cite? I found cites that talk about what Hamilton meant and what Madison meant.

" James Madison explained the requirement for impeachment during the debates of the Constitutional Convention of 1787Alexander Hamilton explained in The Federalist Papers (No. 65)… Do you disagree with them? Or do you have other quotes from those two gentlemen? Please share.

So, what Definition of “High Crimes and Misdemeanors” do you like? Not Madisons, not Hamiltons? Whose? Please inform us.

Has any poster here answered your question to your satisfaction? It does not appear so.

Congress cannot impose any criminal penalty on a executive branch officer convicted of impeachment. Congress is limited by the Constitution to removal from office, and banning from holding future office, anyone impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate.

Impeachment is unambuguously a political trial, not a criminal trial.

Yep, absolutely.

Incidentally that Impeachment proves soldily, that “High Crimes and Misdemeanors” means precisely, no more and no less, exactly what many posters here have said- Entirely whatever the House and Senate says they are.

On February 3, 1803, President Thomas Jefferson sent evidence to the United States House of Representatives against Pickering, accusing him of having made unlawful rulings and being of bad moral character due to intoxication while on the bench. The charges arose in connection with a libel for unpaid duties against the Eliza. The House voted to impeach Pickering on March 2, 1803, on charges of drunkenness and unlawful rulings.[2]: 491 Political controversy raged, with Federalists accusing Democratic-Republicans of trying to usurp the Constitution by attempting to remove the judge from office, although he had committed neither “high crimes nor misdemeanors”, which are grounds for impeachment under the Constitution.[2]
John Pickering (judge) - Wikipedia

Note that last-"Political controversy raged, with Federalists accusing Democratic-Republicans of trying to usurp the Constitution by attempting to remove the judge from office, although he had committed neither “high crimes nor misdemeanors”, which are grounds for impeachment under the Constitution

Madison was a Federalist note.