Dave is definitely not innovative anymore, but I’m not sure that’s the right way to judge the show. By the end of his career, Carson was certainly not innovative, but I think most would agree he was the best ever at “Late Night” Television", loosely defined as amusing humor and interesting interviews wrapped into a pretty inflexible format. Carson was great in part because the show became less about him or wacky stunts and more about artfully tying together current events, fake celebrities, random unknown guests, and humor into an effortless hour. By that measure, I’d say Dave is doing pretty darn well and is light years ahead of Leno. I would like to see more “normal people” v. celebrities, though since I think that’s where he’s at his best.
Forgot to add that John Stewart is my vote for a replacement should one be needed.
I think Letterman was still excellent after the jump to CBS.
But then he got sick. His delivery started to degrade; it got to the point where his opening monologue woul;d have stretches of minutes in it in which he did not actually tell a joke. The official shark jump came when the “Know Your Current Events” gag was replaced by “Know Your Cuts of Meat,” which had no jokes whatsoever; it was 100% pure in joke, ha ha, Dave’s doing a sequence with no joke, isn’t that funny.
Leno is vanilla to be sure, but it’s good vanilla; he tells JOKES, and lots of them. eing edgy and insulting your guests is fine and dandy, but a comedian on a comedy show is there to tell jokes. If you have edginess and attitude without jokes, you have absolutely nothing. Leno tells good jokes; Letterman’s joke content is, for whatever reason, way down.
I watch Dave four nights a week and still laugh like hell; perhaps I’m just not smart enough to see that it’s not funny.
The “Know your cuts of meat” gag is not just about having no gag; it’s an excuse for Dave to go out in the audience and improvise. The guy still has wicked timing and wit.
Watch how he can save a boring interviewee like Ashton Kutcher. The one time I saw Kutcher on Letterman’s show, he came off like an annoying imbecile, and Dave pretty much took over the interview and kept it from becoming a dumb-fest. On the other hand, with a good speaker like Edward Norton, Dave essentially shuts up and lets him go, because Norton is articulate and sharp enough to engage our interest without Dave’s help.
And I find “Is This Anything?” and especially “Will It Float?” entertainingly surreal (“Dave, it’s a car battery…”).
I’ve only seen Leno four or five times, but all of those were so unremittingly bland and boring that I don’t feel I’m missing anything.
I was the biggest Dave fan years ago when he was on NBC. The show was just the greatest. Now I just can’t stand to watch it. Somebody needs to lay off the applaud sign everytime Dave tells a one liner or smirks at the camera. It’s painful.
Try to convince a teenager that this guy used to be the schiz-nit.
What I wouldn’t give to have some of the old NBC Late Night Anniversary shows on tape for proof. Dropping melons off buildings, steamrolling eggs, alkaseltzer suit, viewer mail, Chris Elliot, etc.
Can i just add that the band leader (Paul Shafer?) on Letterman annoys the absolute shit out of me.
Can i add that Kevin Eubanks on Leno annoys the absolute shit out of me.
I agree with Jackelope on Letterman and on Leno. I’ve “been with Dave” since the old daytime show, and I guess I’ll always be loyal. I miss some of the old stunts he used to do on the NBC show, but you can’t stay with the same old schtick forever.
As for a “replacement”, John Stewart’s my man. I’m glad I don’t have to choose between him & Dave just yet - I can watch 'em back-to-back.
Exactly. When I was growing up it was this cool, weird, intriguing stuff. Now it’s dogs jumping over pools of water and Dave making funny faces at the camera.
Can I add that Wynton Marsailes, Kevin Eubanks’ infinitely more talented and way cooler predescessor, annoyed the shit out of Leno, and that’s why he had to leave? Kevin’s grating laugh and willingness to suck up to Jay is the reason I only see the show once or twice a year.
David is Dave is D.A.V.E. Dat’s A Veteran Entertainer.
Branford Marsalis, Askia, Wynton would never dirty himself with a network job. 
My dad taped the show when I was a kid, I still have a number of Anniversary shows from NBC along with some clip reels I put together myself. Stuff like the velcro suit and Elliot doing his Brando impression were moments of such inspired silliness, I was always anticipating the next bizarre moment (sometimes those moments came during the interviews). John Cleese did an appearance where he praised Late Night with “This is without a doubt the stupidest show I have ever seen.”
The move to 11:30 changed the show dramatically. That slot is more about doing promotion for other performers than doing odd material.
Paul Schaffer is monstrously obnoxious. I find Kevin Eubanks to be very mild. And I forgot to mention that I don’t support Jon Stewart as a replacement host for Letterman (or Leno, or anyone else) because he’s too valuable on the Daily Show.
I’m a big time Letterman fan and still watch the show nightly. But like many of the other people of the board, have noticed the show going downhill.
Letterman has been rehashing jokes like crazy recently. I’m sick of his little act with the Dr. Phil mug size joke. Must he do that every single night?
He definitely is more mild mannered these days and relies alot on whiny stories for gags. I say bring back some of the zaniness of the NBC days.
But no matter what, he still beats Leno by a longshot in my book.
People either love Letterman, or they just can’t stand him.
Personally, I love him. I loved him on NBC, and he still cracks me up on CBS. He’s always gone through cycles where he repeats the same joke night after night. It’s incredibly annoying, but I find it hysterical. Some nights are kind of slow, and maybe those nights are more frequent than they used to be… but there are still moments of pure genius. I love his “What’s Your Problem” game at Rupert’s deli. No one has any idea what the premise or point of the quiz is–I love that.
And he’s much, much funnier than Leno.
I saw him live and was terribly disappointed - and the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth. Before you go in a cute little girl comes by begging for laughs. Quote: Dave is only as good as his audience. If you aren’t sure if something is funny, laugh anyway and then decide on the way home.
Old Letterman shows are on the Trio cable network, nightly at 7.
And Skoppo, “People either love Letterman, or they just can’t stand him.” doesn’t explain all of us who used to find him funny but now can’t stand him.
Do you remember that horrifying period on SNL when Norm MacDonald would impersonate his every tic so accurately that I’m surprised Letterman had the will to live?
He lost it at some point. I’m not surprised he still has loyal fans, but a huge portion of his audience noticed and went elsewhere.
And while I agree Jon Stewart is now the best of the late night shows, I absolutely don’t want him moving from Comedy Central to dilute it down on a network. Look what happened to Bill Maher when he tried that.
What? The writer of the gem “It’s Raining Men”?!!
Leno is liked and disliked. Letterman is loved and hated.
Letterman really is one of a great figures in the history of broadcast television, ratings be damned. Even Carson can’t claim a moment as profound and historic as Late Show’s return to television following September 11. Fifty years from now, Letterman will be in the books; Leno probably won’t.
I never realized he wrote that song.
Great song, but the fact that he wrote it does not make him any less annoying, i’m afraid.
Well, i’m afraid i didn’t see the show in question, but i question whether the simple fact of returning to air after the WTC attacks is particularly “profound and historic.” And i can’t imagine that anything was said on that show that was any more poignant or profund than what thousands of others said before or since.
So the show returned to television? Big fucking deal.