# Has "Lost" Lost It? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 14, 2009, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048 "2009-04-14T08:18:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/41 "2009-04-15T03:21:39Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > But the characters don’t even make much sense anymore half the time. Every time a character does something, ask yourself “is there a plausible motivation for them to be doing this?” and frequently there isn’t. The characters have become plot devices to move the story from point to point. I simply don’t agree, though obviously this isn’t an objective question. Just like you like certain people or you don’t, you buy the story or you don’t. I buy it, and I enjoy it immensely because of that. > [@](#): > > Even the basic premise of this season, having to go back to the Island - why is Jack there? Kate? Hurley? Again, I think the whys of each of these characters, aside from Hurley, have been spelled out pretty well, if not entirely. And then there is also this sense of destiny that permeates the show that characters have bought into or not to varying degrees. Jack has been tortured by visions of his father and the sense that Locke is right: that he’s missed something big in his life and that the Island won’t let him escape exploring these things if his life is going to have any meaning. His life on the mainland went to crap, and he has nothing left to hold onto. He’s currently still mostly just waiting to see what that is. Kate has been tortured by the idea that Aaron is not really hers, and now pressured in this regard by Ben. She feels like she owes Claire for having taken her baby. And she still has a lingering attachment to both Jack and Sawyer. Again, without Aaron, she feels like she has nothing left. Hurley… who knows yet? Sayid was taken by force, and Sun wants to find Jin. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/42 "2009-04-15T03:28:52Z")
The only time Lost started to feel lost to me was during the first part of season 3, the 6 or so episodes that aired that fall. They were very slow moving, and didn’t really get back into the groove of things. It was a really bad choice to break the season at that point and make us wait months for things to finally start moving again. Season 4 and 5 (so far) have been great, and while not everything is answered, they have answered a lot of things, enough to be satisfactory (for now) but not so much that there’s not more to wonder about for the remainder of this season and next. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/43 "2009-04-15T03:38:23Z")
Heh Lost started lost. Ben Linus was supposed to be a minor character but the fans loved him so much he became the foil of the show. That show was born Lost. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/44 "2009-04-15T03:44:10Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > I think it’s really good again. But time travel stories can be hard to wrap your head around, it’s probably best not to think about that stuff too much. The character stuff is good, we have the old John Locke back, Ben doesn’t know everything anymore, Sawyer is a better Jack than Jack ever was and Jack is now a poor imitation of early Sawyer. And Kate … well, she’s still Kate, you can’t have everything. The most satisfying moment for me this season was when Sawyer asked Jack if he felt better that Sawyer had it under control, and Jack looking visibly relieved, “Yeah.” I think we always wanted Jack to step back and Sawyer to step forward. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/45 "2009-04-15T03:50:39Z")
I was just actually thinking earlier today that this season has been quite excellent. Whereas previous seasons have had a few slower paced episodes leading to two or three big mytharc episodes, this season has been the opposite - big mytharc episodes all season with two or three slower paced episodes sprinkled in. We’re getting a lot of answers to the mysteries, we even travelled back in time to the cool major stuff like Danielle and DHARMA! I think the only time Lost faltered was when it wasn’t sure how long it was going to be on the air and things turned around when they made the deal for a definitive end to the series. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/46 "2009-04-15T04:36:02Z")
The weakest parts of the show have really been the flashbacks in Season 3 and some of season 2 which were really sort of unnecessary. Kate’s marriage to a police officer, Jack’s tattoos, Jack dealing with the old man who wanted a miracle, Locke’s experience with the pot ranch, Sayid meeting with someone he tortured, etc. Some of the Sun and Jin stuff with the affair. A lot of those flashbacks basically reinforced things we already knew about the characters and thus slowed down the on-Island events, which were still pretty engaging on their own. The whole Ben/sick storyline could have been shrunk down as well. And Nikki and Paulo were always a bad idea. The most implausible part of the show for me have always been the ones dealing with “tracking.” It seems like tracks are magical and obvious and that it’s possible to follow someone’s tracks so well that you can easily catch up to someone who has more than an hour head start. That’s just GOOFY. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/47 "2009-04-15T07:06:46Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I think it’s pretty bad. I still watch it - after the time invested, I feel sort of obligated even though I realize it’s sort of like throwing good money after bad. But it was clear fairly early on into the second season that the writers were just stringing us along and had no real idea what they were doing and not much has changed in that regard. You nailed it. The show is a train-wreck. I too only still watch it (and I use the term “watch” very loosely) because of how much time I’ve invested, and to see if there’s truly any pay-off. I admit, the show totally hooked me its first season, when the mysteries were still mysterious, and I actually was curious about them. But after being strung along for 4+ seasons now, and provided with ho-hum explanations–and new mysteries–I just don’t care anymore. The show has slowly been getting more and more ridiculous and makes it harder to take the show, or its characters, seriously. The characters ARE just plot devices, never acting rationally, or hell, even consistently. OIf I had to choose a spot when my faith in the series started to wane, it was after they blew open the hatch and discovered–GASP–some dude typing away on a keyboard. Lame as fucking hell. I should have quit then. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/48 "2009-04-15T07:27:34Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > If you don’t like the show, that’s fine, but I think it’s pretty ridiculous to say this when the creators have consistently insisted otherwise. Especially considering they have given examples of things like “Adam and Eve” that they included in the first season, but which they knew all along they wouldn’t explain until much later, for the specific purpose of proving that they weren’t making things up as they went along. As someone mentioned up-thread, how does that explain Ben, who the creators conceded was only supposed to be in a few episodes, has become a mainstay (and a pretty damn prominent character) on the show? I don’t actually expect you to answer that, because obviously neither of us are privy to what actually goes on behind the scenes. But in my perception, it seems evident they’re making a lot of this shit up as you go. Oh, and didn’t Charlie actually say he couldn’t swim at some point, but then was seen diving underwater a season later? Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/49 "2009-04-15T07:39:56Z")
As you may recall, the actor playing Ben was originally introduced as a minor character “Henry Gale”; as I understand it, the writers explain that they always intended to have Ben play a prominent part in the story, but just hadn’t originally intended to have “Henry Gale” turn out to be the same character as Ben. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/50 "2009-04-15T08:47:50Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Oh, and didn’t Charlie actually say he couldn’t swim at some point, but then was seen diving underwater a season later? Not having watched the show, is there anything that would stop him learning to swim during that time? ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/51 "2009-04-15T10:10:47Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Not having watched the show, is there anything that would stop him learning to swim during that time? I applaud you, someone who doesn’t watch the show, for not only reading this thread, but responding with something other than, “This show sucks.” 🙂 Regarding the original question, I don’t think he ever did learn to swim. When he went to the “Looking Glass,” IIRC, he jumped into the water with extreme apprehension, but he willed himself to do it anyway. Also (again, IIRC) there was a point in the show where someone was drowning and Jack jumped into the water because Charlie was unsuccessful in being able to reach the person. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/52 "2009-04-15T10:14:34Z")
> [@mshar253](#): > > I applaud you, someone who doesn’t watch the show, for not only reading this thread, but responding with something other than, “This show sucks.” 🙂 Straw man? Someone asked about the quality of the show. Most of the responses here are positive. The negative ones are fleshed out with reasoning. What are you getting at? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/53 "2009-04-15T11:11:08Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > OIf I had to choose a spot when my faith in the series started to wane, it was after they blew open the hatch and discovered–GASP–some dude typing away on a keyboard. Lame as fucking hell. I should have quit then. Totally don’t get this. This kind of thing is what makes the show for me. ---
**Author:** ![mshar253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@mshar253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mshar253)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/54 "2009-04-15T11:14:30Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Straw man? Someone asked about the quality of the show. Most of the responses here are positive. The negative ones are fleshed out with reasoning. What are you getting at? At least in my experience, people who don’t watch the show tend to believe it sucks. That’s all. And, on edit, I’ll add that those sentiments are usually exacerbated on the internet, especially on a show that’s as polarizing as Lost. My only point was that I was I was surprised that someone who doesn’t watch the show not only read the thread, but asked a provocative question. I’m sorry if this was against your rules. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/55 "2009-04-15T11:20:35Z")
I started watching Lost about a month ago. A friend gave me the 1st 2 seasons on DVD. WHAT A GREAT SHOW!! I was reading this thread when I noticed there are unboxed spoilers. Locke’s dad is on the Island? Jack and Sawyer reverse roles? I didn’t need to know that…:mad: Anyhoo. I am almost done with season 2. I am watching an episode then listening to the accompanying [Jay and Jack podcast](http://www.jayandjack.com/). They talk about the episode and their observations and theories. Then they have callers who chime in as well. There are a lot of observations you can easily miss. Anyway - I have to leave this thread before I discover that in Season 4 a time vortex is opened by Hurley and Kate making passionate love…or something. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/56 "2009-04-15T13:53:04Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > You nailed it. The show is a train-wreck. I too only still watch it (and I use the term “watch” very loosely) because of how much time I’ve invested, and to see if there’s truly any pay-off. You should quit watching then. As I said earlier, people who don’t enjoy the “ride” of the show and are just waiting for some pay-off are going to be sorely disappointed. Don’t waste your time. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/57 "2009-04-15T15:11:41Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > I was reading this thread when I noticed there are unboxed spoilers. Locke’s dad is on the Island? Jack and Sawyer reverse roles? I didn’t need to know that…:mad: Perhaps you should alert a moderator to put “Open Spoilers” in the thread title and not read any farther. These are events that have taken place in aired episodes, some of them years ago. This is a huge spoiler that I read on a completely unrelated site. The text within my spoiler is relatively innocuous, but the link I provide there will lead to some speculation as to the internal mysteries of the Island: [This](http://origin.avclub.com/articles/michio-kaku,26424/) is an interview with a physicist who is often consulted to assist movie and television writers with scientific accuracy. He makes reference to “Lost”, and off-handedly mentions a theory. I can’t tell from the article whether that theory is the writers’ own plot line, or whether he is instead commenting on a theory put forth by the magazine in which he is writing. Follow the link at your own risk. Right now I’m wishing I hadn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/58 "2009-04-15T16:14:54Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > You should quit watching then. As I said earlier, people who don’t enjoy the “ride” of the show and are just waiting for some pay-off are going to be sorely disappointed. Don’t waste your time. Exactly. I mean, that’s what Wikipedia is for. If you want to know how something ends, just look it up. Don’t be a martyr. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/59 "2009-04-15T17:00:43Z")
> [@mshar253](#): > > Regarding the original question, I don’t think he ever did learn to swim. When he went to the “Looking Glass,” IIRC, he jumped into the water with extreme apprehension, but he willed himself to do it anyway. Also (again, IIRC) there was a point in the show where someone was drowning and Jack jumped into the water because Charlie was unsuccessful in being able to reach the person. In “Greatest Hits”, one of Charlie’s fondest memories was his dad teaching him to swim as a child, if I remember correctly. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/60 "2009-04-15T17:15:00Z")
Yeah, Charlie said he couldn’t swim when he was still on drugs and Joanna was drownings. I figured he was just lying so he wouldn’t have to go in and save her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048.md?page=4)