# Has "Lost" Lost It? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 14, 2009, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048 "2009-04-14T08:18:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/81 "2009-04-16T04:12:29Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > Blah blah blah. You don’t like the story they’re telling, fine. But looking back, it really doesn’t seem that convoluted at all. Getting to where it’s going has certainly involved some stalling for time, but the overall picture is neither crazy nor unfocused. As yet unclear. If the show ended today, would you have a cohesive sense of what the story was? If not, then the ending is still relevant to the overall picture. > [@](#): > > Again, if you don’t buy the characters, fine. But it’s also perfectly possible to buy them and their motivations and decisions, and at this point it feels like you’re just cheating yourself out of the fun with a bunch of pointless nitpicks. Apply your standard to virtually any drama, and you could end up complaining about the Godfather just as vehemently and bitterly. They’re not “pointless nitpicks” - this thread was someone asking about the flaws of the show. As for “my standard”, what is that? That characters do things by motivations that make sense for them rather than be inconsistent and do whatever the plot dictates? That’d be true of some (bad) shows but most are much more consistent. You make it sound as if the show is so nearly perfect that I have to critique the tiniest details to find flaws, when there are huge gaping ones. I’m not saying it isn’t without merit. I still watch the show. It can be interesting and entertaining at times. But look what the thread was started about before jumping in with fanboyish fervor ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/82 "2009-04-16T13:39:11Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Even the basic premise of this season, having to go back to the Island - why is Jack there? Kate? Hurley? > > For them, it seems that they basically had this conversation. > > “We Have To Go Back” > > “What? Are you crazy? We barely got out of there alive.” > > “We Have To Go Back” > > “…Others. Smoke Monster. Polar Bears. Remember any of this?” > > “We Have To Go Back” > > “Oh. Okay.” > [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > We will just have to agree to disagree here. They spent a whole season setting up Jack losing it, replete with him being “haunted” by his dead dad. That’s pretty good motivation for me. Ditto for Hurley, he kept getting visited by dead people. Sun wanted to save her husband. Said got dragged back agaisnt his will. The only one who’s motivation didn’t make much sense is Kate, and I’ve always considered her the most weakly written of the main cast members. But, seeing as they have built a pretty good track record of Kate doing dumb things when she is upset, I’m willing to give that one a pass. Actually, you and **SenorBeef** are both right. Yes-you’re right that they explained why the characters (except for Hurley-I still want to know what changed his mind) decided to go back: the Island was haunting them–forcing them back. What’s frustrating (and I think what **SB** is getting at) is that no-one’s asking the far, FAR more important questions: _WHY does the Island want them back?_ What’s it’s purpose in forcing them back? Why them and not, say Waaaaaaaaalt? What does the Island need them to do? And as someone who is still really enjoying the show, there _is_ lack of basic curiosity from…well…EVERY character about _why_ the Island wants them and what for. No-one (except maybe Locke) has ever even _asked_. This, as a fan, is very, VERY frustrating. Even if Jack were to ask, say Sawyer “What do you think the Island wants from us? Why us? Why do we keep getting drawn back here?” and Sawyer replied “Damn if I know, doc. DamifIknow.” at least we’d see that the characters have a basic, normal, human curiosity. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/83 "2009-04-16T13:44:49Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Hurley mentioned the caves once later on. I can’t remember why, but he said he was gonna move to the caves because no one lives there anymore. I just watched that—it was around the time Libby was killed. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048/84 "2009-04-16T14:10:15Z")
**Fenris** , you’re on to something. I think I’m most frustrated with the idea of the Island having opinions about “good” and “bad” people. I just rewatched “?” and I can’t for the life of me figure out \*why \*Smokey offed Eko and not, say, Ben. Yemi-in-Eko’s-dream forgave Eko; wasn’t Yemi really Smokey/the Island then? So why change its mind later?It’s very hard to make sense of why I should _care_ how the Island judges people when it seems to drive people to do heinous things for no clear reason, especially when no one seems to question it. It seems I want to care, but it’s frustratingly confusing. There’s hints that the Island is somehow terribly important to the continuing existence of humanity, but the cost it exacts doesn’t make sense to me. Are the writers telling a story about how the ends sometimes justify the means, or is the Island really a bad guy? Other smaller things annoy me, like the whole thing about Hawking insisting that the flight to Guam needs to replicate Flight 316 as closely as possible… except not. Locke has to be proxy for Papa Shepherd; who then is proxy for Locke? Who’s proxy for Shannon, Boone, Libby, etc.? Do the redshirts not matter at all? If it’s just folks on Jacob’s list that matter, why does Walt get a pass (and no proxy for Locke)? What’s Ben doing on that flight?However, I am totally sucked in and couldn’t look away if I wanted to now. I did lose interest in parts of Season 3 and only reluctantly got recaptured in Season 4, but I’m clearly rehooked. The loooooong format storytelling is exhilarating. I’m not bothered by the fact that the writers didn’t have am Absolutely Complete Master Plan worked out at the beginning; I like that they gave themselves freedom within an essential framework, and I do believe they pinned down that framework early in the game. They had enough freedom to absorb punches from the network, the writers’ strike, and actor availability, which clearly turned out to be necessary. If they’d over-committed to fine details early on, they would have had to retcon a lot more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-lost-lost-it/493048.md?page=4)