# Has Mad Men held up? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 8, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443 "2010-06-08T16:41:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/21 "2010-07-09T14:18:35Z")
> [@Raza](#): > > I’m at a decision-point: we just finished Season 2 on DVD. Season 3 is out on DVD, but Season 4 will be starting soon. > > I sense that Season 3 is a mixed bag but with a strong end. Should we go directly to watching the last 4 episodes of Season 3 (or perhaps first 4 + last 4)? Or will we miss some really important, long-reaching plot material from the middle? As much as I feel the ball got fumbled if not altogether dropped in S3, I would definitely advise seeing all the episodes – if you plan to continue with S4. Too many things get dropped for an episode or two only to recur later with much weight. That’s a common theme to good series, IMO, and I do think MM is a good series. It just lost some of its pizzazz in S3. Others have posted more positively about S3 than I saw, but I can accept the range of tastes involved. As an example, I wouldn’t flinch if they killed off the Betty character. And she’s up for an Emmy! Color me out of step with TV America. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/22 "2010-07-09T14:22:47Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > I’m currently watching season 3 on DVD (don’t have cable), and though I’m not as enthralled as I was by seasons 1 and 2, I’m definitely enjoying it. I was so glad it ended strong – I’m totally looking forward to Season 4 (on DVD, in about a year … sigh …) after seeing _everything_ that happened in the last ep. Re: whether to skip season 3: I wouldn’t. Enough long-arc stuff happened that it’s worth watching for being clear where you are with all the characters. And remember, “not as good as the first two seasons,” which seems to be the consensus, doesn’t mean “not good” – it’s worth watching. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/23 "2010-07-09T14:31:24Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > As an example, I wouldn’t flinch if they killed off the Betty character. And she’s up for an Emmy! Color me out of step with TV America. I also wouldn’t flinch if they killed off Betty. But January Jones’s performance was good and I wouldn’t begrudge her an Emmy. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/24 "2010-07-09T14:52:06Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I also wouldn’t flinch if they killed off Betty. But January Jones’s performance was good and I wouldn’t begrudge her an Emmy. I’ve never been convinced that it’s a performance, and not the way she really is IRL. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/25 "2010-07-09T14:53:48Z")
Regardless, it was perfect for the character. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/26 "2010-07-09T15:07:40Z")
Oh, absolutely – Hitchcock would have adored her – but I’m just not sure she deserves an award for acting, since I remain unconvinced that she is. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/27 "2010-07-09T15:15:15Z")
It depends on what you consider “acting” to be. In this case, whatever she was doing created a fully realized, believable, and emotionally resonant (in my case, entirely negative emotions) persona for the benefit of the viewer. I don’t think she has to prove that she was pretending in order for her to get recognition that this particular performance was outstanding. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/28 "2010-07-09T15:16:51Z")
I rewatched bits of the marathon and paid more attention to Betty. These episodes were before she began to suspect Don’s infidelity. Her character was lighter – not really “happy” but contented and secure, and sexy. It was a nice contrast with later on, when she had to really examine her life and became so cold and self-absorbed. I don’t know that her S3 performance is Emmy worthy, but it did look like she was acting. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/29 "2010-07-09T15:58:16Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > It depends on what you consider “acting” to be. In this case, whatever she was doing created a fully realized, believable, and emotionally resonant (in my case, entirely negative emotions) persona for the benefit of the viewer. I don’t think she has to prove that she was pretending in order for her to get recognition that this particular performance was outstanding. Point taken. ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/30 "2010-07-09T17:03:29Z")
I rarely listen to the audio commentary, but did so one episode from Season 1. One of the commenters (a writer, I believe) noted that (paraphrasing from memory) “January and Jon seem so natural together, so comfortable together as a couple.” I strongly disagree; even before the infidelity was known to Bets, I felt that, if anything, the couple seemed unnatural. Bets didn’t seem comfortable with Don, and he didn’t exactly seem warm to her. Every interaction they had seemed stilted (this is not a comment on the acting, but on the characters’ relationship). Am I the only one that came away with this impression? ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/31 "2010-07-09T17:19:23Z")
> [@Raza](#): > > I rarely listen to the audio commentary, but did so one episode from Season 1. One of the commenters (a writer, I believe) noted that (paraphrasing from memory) “January and Jon seem so natural together, so comfortable together as a couple.” I strongly disagree; even before the infidelity was known to Bets, I felt that, if anything, the couple seemed unnatural. Bets didn’t seem comfortable with Don, and he didn’t exactly seem warm to her. Every interaction they had seemed stilted (this is not a comment on the acting, but on the characters’ relationship). Am I the only one that came away with this impression? I haven’t seen any reruns, so my memory of the specific seasons is probably faulty. What has stood out to me about their relationship is Don’s “secret other life” preventing any closeness between him and anybody, especially Betty. If anything, the way she’s presented early on is in light of the “subservient housewife” that 50’s and 60’s females seem to focus on as to why the rise of Feminism in that era was so strong. As time moves along, his sneakiness is less a factor and her growing disillusionment with her situation more of one. All things considered, the Joanie character is more the way guys liked to think of women and Betty is more the way they saw themselves. Somewhere in between lies the truth and I believe Elizabeth Moss is revealing that as well as, if not better than, the extremes. She definitely has the more difficult role to make believable. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/32 "2010-07-09T18:12:04Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I doubt he’ll have the money, really. > > New business plus divorce? > > ETA - sorry, didn’t think about spoilers. About that; Betty really screwed herself over regarding the divorce. In exchange for Don letting her go to Reno she agreed to no alimony (& she plans on remarrying immediately after getting her decree), no lump sum, and to let Don keep the house (which he’ll probally sell & keep all the money). The new business will lead to belt tightening, but Don’s already been living below his means since season 2 at least. July 25th can come soon enough. Surprisingly little spoilers about the upcoming season of Mad-Men have leaked out on the internet. They’ve even managed to keep the size of the time-jump a seceret (between seasons 1 & 2 it was 14 months, seasons 2 & 3 it was only 6 months). I hope the gap is even shorter this season. I really want to so them struggling and building Sterling-Cooper-Draper-Pryce up from scratch, not just jumping ahead a year or two. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/33 "2010-07-09T18:18:33Z")
> [@Raza](#): > > I rarely listen to the audio commentary, but did so one episode from Season 1. One of the commenters (a writer, I believe) noted that (paraphrasing from memory) “January and Jon seem so natural together, so comfortable together as a couple.” I strongly disagree; even before the infidelity was known to Bets, I felt that, if anything, the couple seemed unnatural. Bets didn’t seem comfortable with Don, and he didn’t exactly seem warm to her. Every interaction they had seemed stilted (this is not a comment on the acting, but on the characters’ relationship). Am I the only one that came away with this impression? No. I hope that writer just misspoke, because there is no way Don and Betty come off as being “comfortable” with each other. They are the perfect couple from the outside, but they both married an image of what the perfect spouse should be. In reality neither of them knows the other at all. Hell, they barely have any grasp of their _own_ identities. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/34 "2010-07-09T19:03:16Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Oh, absolutely – Hitchcock would have adored her – but I’m just not sure she deserves an award for acting, since I remain unconvinced that she is. I just watched Rear Window and Grace Kelly just brings a ton more to the screen than January Jones does. Ms. Jones looks great in period clothing. But emmy worthy? not even close. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/35 "2010-07-09T20:45:29Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > … > > Betty really screwed herself over regarding the divorce. In exchange for Don letting her go to Reno she agreed to no alimony (& she plans on remarrying immediately after getting her decree), no lump sum, and to let Don keep the house (which he’ll probally sell & keep all the money). The new business will lead to belt tightening, but Don’s already been living below his means since season 2 at least. > > July 25th can come soon enough. Surprisingly little spoilers about the upcoming season of Mad-Men have leaked out on the internet. They’ve even managed to keep the size of the time-jump a seceret (between seasons 1 & 2 it was 14 months, seasons 2 & 3 it was only 6 months). I hope the gap is even shorter this season. I really want to so them struggling and building Sterling-Cooper-Draper-Pryce up from scratch, not just jumping ahead a year or two. Concerning your spoiler: [spoiler]The usual Reno divorce involved the couple agreeing on the details (with legal help, of course) before the one with time to spare went to Nevada to establish residence & get the divorce. Apparently Henry was so hot to trot that he whisked Betty off to Reno to start the process; his job & fear of scandal probably meant he returned to New York. We know that _Henry_ didn’t want her to take a cent from Don. Don agreed to the divorce because he was convinced there was no hope–but we don’t know that he wanted to get out of any obligations. The divorce won’t go through unless he signs off. And who know what Betty wants? Surely there are lawyers in Reno; could Betty arrange things with Don long distance? Details of child support & visitation? A lump settlement? (Betty complained that Don didn’t know how to handle money. Shouldn’t she add something to whatever she gets from her father’s estate to establish her very small fortune? Life is unsure & I don’t see her demeaning herself with a job.) Alimony? If yes, it still stops if Betty remarries. The house? Don doesn’t want to live in the 'burbs–but Henry already has a home. So–sell it & decide what to do with the proceeds? But Betty _might not_ marry Henry right away; she could stay in Ossining “for the kids.” Even though she expressed contempt for her neighbors & would now be That Divorced Woman.[/spoiler] There are many questions to be answered in the new season. And the show is bad about immediately filling us in with every detail about what happened between seasons. (Remember our questions about That Baby living with Peggy’s sister?) ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/36 "2010-07-09T23:14:07Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Concerning your spoiler: > > [spoiler]The usual Reno divorce involved the couple agreeing on the details (with legal help, of course) before the one with time to spare went to Nevada to establish residence & get the divorce. Apparently Henry was so hot to trot that he whisked Betty off to Reno to start the process; his job & fear of scandal probably meant he returned to New York. > > We know that _Henry_ didn’t want her to take a cent from Don. Don agreed to the divorce because he was convinced there was no hope–but we don’t know that he wanted to get out of any obligations. The divorce won’t go through unless he signs off. And who know what Betty wants? > > Surely there are lawyers in Reno; could Betty arrange things with Don long distance? Details of child support & visitation? A lump settlement? (Betty complained that Don didn’t know how to handle money. Shouldn’t she add something to whatever she gets from her father’s estate to establish her very small fortune? Life is unsure & I don’t see her demeaning herself with a job.) > > Alimony? If yes, it still stops if Betty remarries. The house? Don doesn’t want to live in the 'burbs–but Henry already has a home. So–sell it & decide what to do with the proceeds? But Betty _might not_ marry Henry right away; she could stay in Ossining “for the kids.” Even though she expressed contempt for her neighbors & would now be That Divorced Woman.[/spoiler] > > There are many questions to be answered in the new season. And the show is bad about immediately filling us in with every detail about what happened between seasons. (Remember our questions about That Baby living with Peggy’s sister?) You made some good points, but… …Betty Draper doing anything “for the kids”? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443/37 "2010-07-10T03:53:40Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > You made some good points, but… > > …Betty Draper doing anything “for the kids”? 😉 For the sake of appearances, only… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-mad-men-held-up/542443.md?page=1)