# Has Michael Moore fallen off the edge? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700 "2004-11-08T19:31:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/21 "2004-11-08T21:00:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Not that it’s surprising, but Moore is using a stolen image. Neither is it surprising that you would assume Moore doesn’t have permission to use it. Admit it, you simply don’t know, do you **Liberal**? How does it feel to bear false witness against thy neighbor? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/22 "2004-11-08T21:20:28Z")
How did the Red Staters find out about computers? Don’t let them know about the whole round earth thing, or once they’ve turned their lands into (bigger) crapholes, they’ll try to follow us. ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/23 "2004-11-08T21:30:47Z")
Gosh, **Liberal** it’s great that you’ve identified the source of this image. In the past week, I’ve seen it on about two dozen websites, plus CNN. Can you please provide a cite of who made it? ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/24 "2004-11-08T21:40:20Z")
Slight hijack related to the copyright of the “map”: I remember reading that you could not copyright simple jokes; would that apply to a satiric image like this as well? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/25 "2004-11-08T21:40:27Z")
Apparently, G. L. Webb created it. His name is on the original, though it and his notices are cropped from Moore’s copy. ---
**Author:** ![Roseworm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Roseworm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roseworm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/26 "2004-11-08T21:40:30Z")
A quote from Michael Moore’s website: “If there was one group who really came through on Tuesday, it was the young people of America. Their turnout was historic and record-setting. And few in the media are willing to report this fact.” Why would the media be unwilling to report something like that? More to the point, there is no evidence that the youth turnout was “historic and record-setting.” If anything, they were as apathetic as ever. Michael Moore is a bombastic, bloated blowhard. In another week, he will convince himself that Kerry won in a landslide, but, somehow, we missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/27 "2004-11-08T21:41:24Z")
> [@G Webb](#): > > Hello everyone! Please copy, don’t link. > [@Liberal](#): > > At any rate, it appears to me that the owner is asking **news sources** not to link OR steal, but rather to make their own copies So in your world, the word “everyone” refers strictly to “news sources”? ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/28 "2004-11-08T21:46:58Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > Can you please provide a cite of who made it? Can you? Being a cartographer I hate it when people think it’s ok to just go ahead a take a map and use it as their own. And since make a map is so easy I’d like for you to try it. Though remember to cite your sources unless you plan on doing it totally without looking at another map or picture. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/29 "2004-11-08T21:47:05Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Neither is it surprising that you would assume Moore doesn’t have permission to use it. Admit it, you simply don’t know, do you **Liberal**? How does it feel to bear false witness against thy neighbor? Well, he didn’t ask permission when he duped the soldiers outside Abu Ghraib into being in Fahrenfart 9/11. Nor did he report abuse he that allegedly had knowledge of to authorities, but chose instead to profit from it. He also said that he is the “anti-Democrat” and that they are a “weak-kneed, wimpy party”, despite that he used them for free exposure during their convention. Why would anyone presume that he acted ethically in this instance? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/30 "2004-11-08T21:49:58Z")
> [@Biffy the Elephant Shrew](#): > > So in your world, the word “everyone” refers strictly to “news sources”? When they’re butted up side-by-side, they do. Ever heard of an antecedent? What’s it like in Leftland? His work belongs to all the people? From each according to his ability, and all that crap? ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/31 "2004-11-08T21:50:16Z")
> [@aaslatten](#): > > Slight hijack related to the copyright of the “map”: I remember reading that you could not copyright simple jokes; would that apply to a satiric image like this as well? Missed this one when I was responding before. Do you think that political cartoons are not copyrighted then either? I can see simple written jokes, but not something that would take time to do. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/32 "2004-11-08T21:53:24Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Why would anyone presume that he acted ethically in this instance? Like I said, you just don’t know. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/33 "2004-11-08T21:59:40Z")
The copy of the map I received in my email had no attribution of any kind. None. Just a grey border. Nothing cropped, no watermarks, just a grey border and a map of Jesusland. Perhaps both I and Moore received an earlier version of the map - perhaps a version circulated before the designer added them. > [@Liberal](#): > > He also said that he is the “anti-Democrat” and that they are a “weak-kneed, wimpy party”, despite that he used them for free exposure during their convention. And he used the Republicans for free exposure during their convention. What was your point? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/34 "2004-11-08T22:01:02Z")
That he’s a scuzzy opportunist. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/35 "2004-11-08T22:10:15Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That he’s a scuzzy opportunist. But not a thief. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/36 "2004-11-08T22:10:30Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That he’s a scuzzy opportunist. Well, yes, but that’s old news. Why didn’t you say that in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/37 "2004-11-08T22:14:14Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > When they’re butted up side-by-side, they do. Ever heard of an antecedent? What’s it like in Leftland? His work belongs to all the people? From each according to his ability, and all that crap? You’re saying, then, that the word “newspapers,” which occurs in a separate statement printed in a different part of the cartoon and in a different orientation to the request to copy and not link, is an antecedent to that request. (Never mind that a statement that begins with “Hello” is obviously not a continuation of any previous statement.) Therefore, he’s requesting that newspapers not link to his site. What’s it like in Futureland where the newspapers have hyperlinks? What do you hear from George Jetson? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/38 "2004-11-08T22:25:54Z")
> [@Edward The Head](#): > > Missed this one when I was responding before. Do you think that political cartoons are not copyrighted then either? I can see simple written jokes, but not something that would take time to do. The _concept_ of a simple joke is hard to protect–consider how many editorial cartoonists come up with the same joke independently (as in the dozens of cartoons of Christopher Reeve dressed as Superman flying out of his wheelchair that appeared when he died). Copying a specific image, as is the case here, is another matter; but the artist does appear to be encouraging free use of the image. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/39 "2004-11-08T22:32:32Z")
What do you know? Michael Moore has made it to the water cooler again, just as he was hoping would happen. What will he do next for attention? A sex book and kissing another man at the VMAs? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700/40 "2004-11-08T22:32:54Z")
Or perhaps G. Webb added his own name to a picture he got from somewhere else. Who knows who originally created it. If it was so damned important to the creator that noone use it, he/she would have used a watermark. It’s general circulation without attribution or watermark, though, suggests it was released to the public domain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-michael-moore-fallen-off-the-edge/273700.md?page=3)