# Has Obama committed any "Impeachable Offenses"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750 "2009-09-03T15:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/21 "2009-09-03T16:20:23Z")
I seriously think the US is in danger of moving back to the days of 17th/18th century England. For a while, especially in the reign of Queen Anne, it was customary for the members of each outgoing administration to be impeached by the incoming one, as Lord Harley was by the triumphant Whigs at the time of Anne’s death and the accession of George I. Impeachment should be reserved for ‘high crimes and misdemeanours’, not political differences. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/22 "2009-09-03T16:25:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **Bricker** specified \*criminal \*law, for one thing, and violating the Tenure of Office Act was a civil violation. For another, Johnson was also impeached for making speeches defaming Congress. That has never been a violation criminal law, and is actually sometimes required of a responsible citizen. 😉 > > No, for claims of something that was described in such a way as to smell something like perjury, but without actually using the word. And for good reason. Violating a law passed by Congress is a civil offense and not criminal? I’ll take you at your word on this as IANAL but seems odd. Either way he was “breaking” a law. As for Clinton “perjury” (or rather “perjurious”) was definitely in the [Articles of Impeachment](http://www.davidstuff.com/usa/impeacharticles.htm) against him. Sure seems like they used the word to me. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/23 "2009-09-03T16:27:09Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > Impeach him for his bad verses! And Glenn Beck is an honorable man… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/24 "2009-09-03T16:29:27Z")
Impeachement is the American version of a vote of no confidence. It wasn’t designed to be, but it is. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/25 "2009-09-03T16:35:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Violating a law passed by Congress is a civil offense and not criminal? Going by Wiki, it isn’t clear he even violated it. > [@](#): > > As for Clinton “perjury” (or rather “perjurious”) was definitely in the [Articles of Impeachment](http://www.davidstuff.com/usa/impeacharticles.htm) against him. :shrug: **Bricker** also said “and can prove”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/26 "2009-09-03T16:36:02Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > Impeach him for his bad verses! Now don’t get all wee-wee’d up over it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/27 "2009-09-03T16:37:19Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Impeachement is the American version of a vote of no confidence. It wasn’t designed to be, but it is. No, it isn’t. Name one time that impeachment was seriously discussed for a president due to policy differences or unpopularity. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/28 "2009-09-03T16:38:15Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Name one time that impeachment was seriously discussed for a president due to policy differences or unpopularity. Um, the aforementioned Andrew Johnson. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/29 "2009-09-03T16:39:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Um, the aforementioned Andrew Johnson. Drat…beaten to it. What he said. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/30 "2009-09-03T16:48:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Um, the aforementioned Andrew Johnson. Still, that’s once in two-hundred years, and as stated above, even then Congress felt it needed to come up with at least the appearance of finding a crime rather then just being honest and saying they hated the guy. I don’t think it’s really accurate to say that its become a “vote of no confidence”. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/31 "2009-09-03T16:59:45Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Still, that’s once in two-hundred years, and as stated above, even then Congress felt it needed to come up with at least the appearance of finding a crime rather then just being honest and saying they hated the guy. > > I don’t think it’s really accurate to say that its become a “vote of no confidence”. Actually I’d say Clinton falls in this category too. He was guilty of perjury but it was a witch hunt that went on for years to finally “get” him for really little more reason than the Repubs didn’t like him. I would also say there is room for a vote of no confidence (in essence). Hypothetically suppose the president has a psychotic break while in office and literally becomes batshit crazy (and refuses to resign). While he may not have broken any laws I would hope Congress would see to his removal. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/32 "2009-09-03T17:03:42Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Still, that’s once in two-hundred years Twice, if you consider (as you must) the environment and context of the Clinton impeachment. Four, if you count the failed votes against Jackson. > [@](#): > > I don’t think it’s really accurate to say that its become a “vote of no confidence”. It isn’t. That’s just a vote to declare the PM incompetent, not a grave danger to the nation. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/33 "2009-09-03T17:04:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Um, the aforementioned Andrew Johnson. Congress passed a law, which I believe is unconstitutional, and Johnson violated it. Was the law passed because Johnson was unpopular? Yes. But the fact remains that Johnson violated a (crappy) law. That was the basis of impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/34 "2009-09-03T17:05:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Johnson. The first one. There was a move to impeach Jackson but it didn’t get anywhere. > > **Bricker** specified \*criminal \*law, for one thing, and violating the Tenure of Office Act was a civil violation. Actually, Section 5 and Section 6 of the [Tenure of Office Act](http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=014/llsl014.db&recNum=462) do specify that violations of the Act will be considered “high misdemeanors.” Given that the primary focus of the Act dealt with presidential hire/fire power for executive office positions, this language was undoubtedly designed with impeachment in mind. [QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] Violating a law passed by Congress is a civil offense and not criminal? I’ll take you at your word on this as IANAL but seems odd. Either way he was “breaking” a law. [/QUOTE] For a violation of a law to be criminal, it must specify criminal penalties should the law not be followed. If a law doesn’t include this, then violating the law may be illegal, but wouldn’t necessarily be criminal (unless one could argue or prove that violating the law involved committing another recognized criminal act). ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/35 "2009-09-03T17:06:16Z")
Well, you wouldn’t have to impeach. There are procedures already set up to remove power from the President due to illness and the like. Stupid fast-posting thread. That reply is to Whack-A-Mole. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/36 "2009-09-03T17:11:06Z")
The actual definition of impeachment in the Constitution really is irrelevant. It seems to me that to your average American, impeachment just means “removal of the president from office”. Hell, even with the Clinton Impeachment within the adult lives of most Americans, people still don’t seem to know what the process is or even why he was impeached. So I think the “Impeach Obama” sticker really just means “I think Obama is a bad president.” As for whether or not he’s done anything impeachable, even the hardcore Obama haters I know don’t have anything on which to base an impeachment, they’ll say he’s ruining the country or birther stuff, but that’s about it. Besides, it’s a Democratic Congress; he’d have to do something pretty obviously bad to get impeached. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/37 "2009-09-03T17:17:08Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Violating a law passed by Congress is a civil offense and not criminal? I’ll take you at your word on this as IANAL but seems odd. Either way he was “breaking” a law. > > As for Clinton “perjury” (or rather “perjurious”) was definitely in the [Articles of Impeachment](http://www.davidstuff.com/usa/impeacharticles.htm) against him. Sure seems like they used the word to me. Tenure of Office Act Sec. 5 provided a penalty of a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars, imprisonment not exceeding five years, or both, for any person attempting to take office in violation of its terms. On its surface, this would apply only to the putative new officeholder, not the President. But the common law of conspiracy would allow the prosecution of another person who jointly planned to violate the law. Of course, a similar law was later found unconstitutional. But at the time, it’s clear that the Tenure of Office Act was criminal in nature. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/38 "2009-09-03T17:33:07Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Well, you wouldn’t have to impeach. There are procedures already set up to remove power from the President due to illness and the like. > > Stupid fast-posting thread. That reply is to Whack-A-Mole. Yeah but I doubt that covers just crazy. Say the president decides to stay perpetually on vacation. Or just flatly refuses to sign any Bill…at all. He’s still walking and talking but abdicated his responsibilities (which is not actually illegal AFAIK). How else would you get him out except impeachment? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/39 "2009-09-03T17:54:43Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > He dances suspiciously well for a male, which must be an offfence in some States. But thankfully, Minnesota leans heavily Democratic fl. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/40 "2009-09-03T18:18:03Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Huh? > > Jackson was nailed on violation of the Tenure of Office Act (which was admittedly tossed in to thwart Jackson by his political opponents). Technically a violation of the law then though. > > Clinton got nailed for perjury. Clinton was accused of perjury in his Senate trial and it was also suggested by Starr that he could be indicted. He was acquitted by the Senate, which is the only time anyone bothered to indict him for perjury. Nailed implies a conviction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750.md?page=3)