# Has Obama committed any "Impeachable Offenses"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750 "2009-09-03T15:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/41 "2009-09-03T18:27:29Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Clinton was accused of perjury in his Senate trial and it was also suggested by Starr that he could be indicted. He was acquitted by the Senate, which is the only time anyone bothered to indict him for perjury. Nailed implies a conviction. To me “nailed” implies he was impeached, which he was and which is the topic of this thread. As noted above perjury was the main thrust of the Articles of Impeachment. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/42 "2009-09-03T18:28:52Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Clinton was accused of perjury in his Senate trial and it was also suggested by Starr that he could be indicted. Starr had the authority to file for it himself, but knew it wouldn’t hold up in a real court. That’s why he sent the House a $40 million porn novel instead. > [@](#): > > He was acquitted by the Senate, which is the only time anyone bothered to indict him for perjury. Not even then. Impeachment/removal has exactly bollocks to do with the legal system. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How else would you get him out except impeachment? The 25th Amendment, if you could get a majority of the cabinet to say the guy “is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office”. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/43 "2009-09-03T18:30:58Z")
I think it’s fair to say that there’s going to be a market in Texas for an Impeach Obama sticker from the moment he’s sworn into office, even if it’s just Republicans annoyed at half a dozen years of Impeach Bush stickers. Then when you look at the last few presidents and the explosion in presidential lawlessness caused by the start of the war on terror, illegal torture, wiretapping etc., it’s a racing certainty that Obama will and has already I suppose break a number of laws, soprinting a bunch of these stickers at the start of Obama’s period in office is a far-sighted entrepreneurial move. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/44 "2009-09-03T18:48:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That’s why he sent the House a $40 million porn novel instead. Even after ten years, you guys can’t give this one up. Clinton was the defendant in a sexual harassment lawsuit. He was asked about his private, consensual sexual activity with Monica Lewisky as a part of that lawsuit, under oath. This is very much legitimate and could be asked of you or I if we were defendants in a sexual harassment lawsuit. Clinton denied that sexual relations occurred. Starr found that sexual relations did, in fact, occur. Clinton was the one who was parsing words over the definition of “sexual relations”. It would have been remiss of Starr not to lay out exactly what happened in order to show that Clinton had perjured himself. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/45 "2009-09-03T18:56:29Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > I think it’s fair to say that there’s going to be a market in Texas for an Impeach Obama sticker from the moment he’s sworn into office, even if it’s just Republicans annoyed at half a dozen years of Impeach Bush stickers… I believe I saw “Impeach Clinton” stickers in January 1993. The whole thing is silly. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/46 "2009-09-03T19:00:09Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Even after ten years, you guys can’t give this one up. Even after ten years, you guys still don’t get it. > [@](#): > > Clinton was the defendant in a sexual harassment lawsuit. Which had already been thrown out. As well, the suit, as you also conveniently omit, was the creation of a foundation created precisely for the purpose of getting Clinton for something, anything, no matter what, and with whom Starr, who shared their outlook, had colluded in his own, similar effort. Remember any of that? > [@](#): > > He was asked about his private, consensual sexual activity with Monica Lewisky as a part of that lawsuit, under oath. As if it were material to that case that no longer existed. :dubious" > [@](#): > > This is very much legitimate and could be asked of you or I if we were defendants in a sexual harassment lawsuit. No it isn’t, and no we wouldn’t. You know better. > [@](#): > > Clinton denied that sexual relations occurred. As defined in the question he was asked. > [@](#): > > Starr found that sexual relations did, in fact, occur. And in great, loving, prurient, legally superfluous detail. Hence the “porn novel” remark. > [@](#): > > Clinton was the one who was parsing words over the definition of “sexual relations”. “The” one? And not the Scaife lawyers asking him? You do know what a “perjury trap” is, don’t you? :dubious: > [@](#): > > It would have been remiss of Starr not to lay out exactly what happened in order to show that Clinton had perjured himself. Perjury requires materiality. It wasn’t there. Starr knew it. It was remiss of him not to drop an investigation that had turned up nothing and required creating something instead. But then you know all that, even if you won’t stipulate it. So, tell us anyway, why do YOU think Starr never filed an indictment? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/47 "2009-09-03T19:08:25Z")
What do you mean that the suit no longer existed? I’m talking about the Paula Jones lawsuit which was settled after the Lewinsky matter. A person’s consensual sexual history, right or wrong, is a valid line of questioning in those type of cases. Only if you are trying to be misleading is the definition of “sexual relations” at all hard to understand. And the very fact that Clinton was dancing around the issue made it relevant for Starr to include these lurid details. He put a cigar in her cootchie! That’s not sexual? And, IIRC, in exchange for everything being dropped, Clinton agreed to a 5 year suspension of his law license and was held in contempt by the judge. Why would that happen if he was railroaded? Why wouldn’t he fight the injustice? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/48 "2009-09-03T19:15:59Z")
If the Birthers’ claim turned out to be true, would he have to be impeached to be removed from office? Could his election be declared invalid by Congress, or does the cert stand regardless? Just wondering… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/49 "2009-09-03T19:18:51Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > What do you mean that the suit no longer existed? I’m talking about the Paula Jones lawsuit which was settled after the Lewinsky matter. The Paula Jones suit that the judge dismissed after Scaife’s lawyers, given every chance, were utterly unable to turn into an actual case, no evidence of sexual harassment having been uncovered. The one that “poor Paula” was paid so handsomely by Scaife to front for. That one. Ring any bells?:dubious: > [@](#): > > A person’s consensual sexual history, right or wrong, is a valid line of questioning in those type of cases. \*Not \*one about sexual harassment, unless the behavior being questioned constitutes such, in a pattern consistent with the behavior being alleged. Which it didn’t, no matter how hard Starr tried to suborn Lewinsky into saying it did. > [@](#): > > Only if you are trying to be misleading is the definition of “sexual relations” at all hard to understand. For normal people in normal use, true. For lawyers in an adversarial, on-the-record legal matter, false. > [@](#): > > And the very fact that Clinton was dancing around the issue made it relevant for Starr to include these lurid details. What part of “materiality” is so hard for you to understand? :dubious: > [@](#): > > And, IIRC, in exchange for everything being dropped, Clinton agreed to a 5 year suspension of his law license and was held in contempt by the judge. Why would that happen if he was railroaded? Why wouldn’t he fight the injustice? Are you completely unaware that he was the fucking President of the United States? That he realistically could not “fight the injustice”? That to do so would cost him more, in time and money, than giving it up? Why do you think any nuisance case is ever settled by the defendant? :dubious: If you still don’t get it then it’s only because you’re determined not to. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/50 "2009-09-03T19:19:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If the Birthers’ claim turned out to be true, would he have to be impeached to be removed from office? Could his election be declared invalid by Congress, or does the cert stand regardless? Just wondering… The most outlandish set of circumstances the Birthers can claim still leaves him a US citizen since birth. So it doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/51 "2009-09-03T19:36:39Z")
Many scientists agree that in 4.5 to 5 billion years, the Sun is going to run out of hydrogen and swell up into a red giant, probably swallowing up the Earth. What is Obama doing about it? Nothing. NOTHING! I say impeach him. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/52 "2009-09-03T19:37:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If the Birthers’ claim turned out to be true, would he have to be impeached to be removed from office? Could his election be declared invalid by Congress, or does the cert stand regardless? Just wondering… The Constitution doesn’t address the question of who resolves disputes as to whether a particular candidate does, in fact, meet the eligibilty requirements for the Presidency. Implicitly, it would fall upon the electors to satisfy themselves that they were voting for an eligible candidate. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/53 "2009-09-03T19:39:02Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Was the law passed because Johnson was unpopular? Yes. “Policy differences” were stipulated too. Hoo boy, were there policy differences at the heart of the law Congress passed to restrain Johnson, over the minor matter of keeping the Civil War won. The final charge, about his bringing Congress into disrepute through defamatory speeches, was in there solely because of his unpopularity with the base of the Radical Republicans who were left in dominant controll of Congress after Secession. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/54 "2009-09-03T19:40:05Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Many scientists agree that in 4.5 to 5 billion years, the Sun is going to run out of hydrogen and swell up into a red giant, probably swallowing up the Earth. What is Obama doing about it? Nothing. NOTHING! You know who \*else \*is doing nothing about it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/55 "2009-09-03T20:01:21Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “Policy differences” were stipulated too. Hoo boy, were there policy differences at the heart of the law Congress passed to restrain Johnson, over the minor matter of keeping the Civil War won. > > The final charge, about his bringing Congress into disrepute through defamatory speeches, was in there solely because of his unpopularity with the base of the Radical Republicans who were left in dominant controll of Congress after Secession. You have the point there. Policy differences did, indeed, play a significant role in why Congress crafted the law that Johnson broke. So you’re right, I phrased my argument poorly. But the more important point is, do people look back and say, “Congress acted reasonably and properly in trying to craft a law for Johnson to break so that Congress could gin up a good reason to impeach the president?” I think most observers would say that the impeachment effort was a soap opera that reflected very poorly upon Congress, and Johnson too. Holding up the Johnson impeachment as a good example of how Congress can impeach for any reason it likes, ignores the prevailing view that it is a BAD example of how Congress can impeach for any reason it likes. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/56 "2009-09-03T20:05:07Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Holding up the Johnson impeachment as a good example of how Congress can impeach for any reason it likes, ignores the prevailing view that it is a BAD example of how Congress can impeach for any reason it likes. I would say “cautionary” instead. It’s the best possible example of how Congress can impeach for any reason it likes, AND the best possible example of how Congress must take its responsibility to the republic and the people extremely seriously when it even considers the possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/57 "2009-09-03T20:10:18Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Many scientists agree that in 4.5 to 5 billion years, the Sun is going to run out of hydrogen and swell up into a red giant, probably swallowing up the Earth. What is Obama doing about it? Nothing. NOTHING! > > I say impeach him. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You know who \*else \*is doing nothing about it? 😉 John Stuart Mill. But he can’t, because he’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/58 "2009-09-03T20:27:57Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > John Stuart Mill. But he can’t, because he’s dead. Let’s impeach him anyway, just to be on the safe side. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/59 "2009-09-04T03:17:12Z")
Obama is clearly guilty of BPWB (being president while black.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750/60 "2009-09-04T20:05:58Z")
Whether it was proper or not, we kind of have to look to the Johnson and Clinton cases for precedent on impeachment, because those are the only impeachments of the President we’ve had. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-committed-any-impeachable-offenses/508750.md?page=4)