# Has Obama spent a million dollars to hide his birth certificate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 9, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877 "2009-08-09T22:44:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/421 "2010-08-04T15:01:41Z")
How critical is it that every aspect of a candidate’s life be open to scrutiny, anyway? Seems to me all you’d end up doing is making everyone but Ned Flanders unelectable. Besides, Obama’s performance at Harvard Law is not relevant to his legitimacy to be elected President. All he had to do is be born a U.S. citizen (he was) and be at least 35 years old (he was). ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/422 "2010-08-04T15:02:37Z")
Tiny hijack: Dick Cheney agreed that Barack Obama is a US Citizen eligible to be president? I would not have expected that-I thought he was right alongside the Birthers. And Don123-one simple statement I’d like you to answer: Do you understand that Obama can not-CAN NOT-order his “vault copy” birth certificate shown to anyone? At all? So it can’t be put on the net for your perusal. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/423 "2010-08-04T15:09:18Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Tiny hijack: Dick Cheney agreed that Barack Obama is a US Citizen eligible to be president? I would not have expected that-I thought he was right alongside the Birthers. Well, he certified the results of the election. I assume that anyone who seriously doubted Obama’s eligibility would have refused. ---
**Author:** ![recessiveMeme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@recessiveMeme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/recessiveMeme)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/424 "2010-08-04T15:28:39Z")
If anything demonstrates the truth of the adage that “you can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themself into” more than “debating” a conspiracy theorist, I don’t know what it is. The birthers, much like the grassy knoll people, the 16th Ammendment people, the 13th’ers, the “loose change” people, et al. long ago decided the nature of “the truth” and nothing- _nothing_- will ever dissuade them. This is the nature of a conspiracy theorist. Where information that seems to support their view is concerned, they are credulity personified. Where reality intrudes they steadfastly ignore it or dismiss it as part of the conspiracy. There is no victory to be found here. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/425 "2010-08-04T15:32:54Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > Yeah but I moved up to buying real estate in Florida with my own cash money and no debt when I was 12 with my mom as a cosigner. Wake me up when you get to the part where Warren Buffet asks you for financial advice. If this is true, congrats, but it has nothing to do with what we’re talking about. > [@](#): > > You don’t think Obama’s history is a mess? No. > [@](#): > > Then why are all the recorded sealed? He’s released the birth certificate. That’s the only thing he can make public. Several state of Hawaii officials have verified that the certificate is legit and on file. We’ve also seen newspaper announcements and a witness who remembers discussing the birth. Given that his mother and the doctor who delivered him are dead, that’s about as good as it’s going to get. There is still no evidence that he was born anywhere else, and there never has been. Of course, releasing everything available didn’t satisfy you, but that’s no surprise. Even if he were able to release other documents, why would you think _those_ are genuine? Couldn’t he or someone else have those just as easily? This is where conspiracy logic always goes: there’s always a brilliant and secretive plan that somehow has holes in it that a layman can detect. > [@](#): > > Here a guy is on the Harvard law reviews perhaps the editor, but yet was never published, never wrote an article on law. That makes any sense to you? Amazing as it is, we have also discussed this issue around here. He was president of the law review for one year, elected from a group of editors. He did not publish his own paper in the review, which most law review presidents do.\* Would you like to explain your view of the significance of this factoid? > [@](#): > > Yeah you have a million excuses. These aren’t excuses. You have a boatload of irrelevant complaints that are not supported by the facts, and yet on and on you go. > [@](#): > > he makes these claims being a high profile celebrity then seals the records—NO deal. He did not seal the records. The state of Hawaii did. - > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Editors of the Harvard law review rarely publish their own work. They’re allowed to publish one article of their own choosing, and typically choose their 3L papers (as Obama did). I thought he did not do that, but maybe I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/426 "2010-08-04T15:34:21Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Whatever you think of “Birthers” as a group - as if they are all one fixed entity - their questions have raised a ridiculous situation in American governance, whereby someone can become president without ever having had his birth credentials authenticised by a relatively trustworthy group. And now we’ve realised we don’t even have that “relatively trustworthy group”, or at least not one that both sides can agree upon. Obama did release his birth credentials. Only people who are unable to think clearly are confused by this. Just because people are gullible enough to believe everything they read, doesn’t mean there is actually a problem. It only exists as a paranoid delusion. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/427 "2010-08-04T15:36:08Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Can the Moderators just give these lunatics a custom label (like “Racist Moron” or something similar) when it becomes obvious what they are? It would save a whole lot of skimming. Comments like this belong in the Pit, not here. Or ATMB if you’re making a semi-serious suggestion. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/428 "2010-08-04T15:43:34Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Well, _we_ hired a light brown-colored man (not a “thing”) to be President. Because most of us who bothered to vote thought he would be better than the white Republican candidate. And definitely better than that white female “thing” running for VP. > > Get over it. But thanks for emphasizing that the Birther cause is 100% racism! Yeah. Where do “these guys” come from"??? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/429 "2010-08-04T15:46:14Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > Yeah but I moved up to buying real estate in Florida with my own cash money and no debt when I was 12 with my mom as a cosigner. Things are getting better all the time. You don’t understand your memories. 12 year olds can’t sign contracts. Your mother wasn’t a co-signer, she bought it for you. > [@](#): > > You don’t think Obama’s history is a mess? Then why are all the recorded sealed? Because he isn’t required to give out his records? If he did, every B grade he got would be harped on hysterical conspiracy theorists like yourself. > [@](#): > > Here a guy is on the Harvard law reviews perhaps the editor Not perhaps. Can’t you relate facts truthfully? Is there some reason that you try to hide facts you don’t like? > [@](#): > > , but yet was never published, never wrote an article on law. [Sure he did.](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12705.html) > [@](#): > > That makes any sense to you? Even if it were true it would. His job wasn’t to write articles. > [@](#): > > Yeah you have a million excuses. Hey if he was Joe off the street no one would care, but he makes these claims being a high profile celebrity then seals the records—NO deal. He hasn’t sealed any records. Why are you unable or unwilling to understand that? His birth certificate is released. The other records you want, the ones the state has cannot be released. You’re just stamping your feet because you don’t understand the issue. Is there any wonder that Birthers are laughed at? Wretched ignorance and facts that are not true are the only thing they can muster. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/430 "2010-08-04T15:51:10Z")
I think his birth certificate was being held in the twin towers, where it was destroyed by planned demolition of the sites. It shows how far Obama would go to hide it. There is a copy in Afghanistan. That is all you need to know. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/431 "2010-08-04T15:52:00Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Because he isn’t required to give out his records? If he did, every B grade he got would be harped on hysterical conspiracy theorists like yourself. A-grades, too, I expect, with cries of grade inflation, tokenism, favouritism, cheating, etc. The next demand will be for copies of all of Obama’s homework assignments to prove he deserved the grade he got. Failure to produce implies willful concealment. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/432 "2010-08-04T15:53:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > - > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > Editors of the Harvard law review rarely publish their own work. They’re allowed to publish one article of their own choosing, and typically choose their 3L papers (as Obama did). > > I thought he did not do that, but maybe I’m wrong. He didn’t. That “as Obama did” was a fragment of something I typed and discarded. Should have proofread my own work. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/433 "2010-08-04T15:55:56Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > Posted here on this thread: > > > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=527526&page=7](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=527526&page=7) > > > > here is the post– > > [StockExaminer - AI-Powered Stock Chatbot](http://www.examiner.com/x-7715-Portl)…-of-Live-Birth > > > > In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were four different ways to get an “original birth certificate” on record. They varied greatly in their reliability as evidence. For convenience, I’ll call them BC1, BC2, BC3, and BC4. > > > > BC1. \ > > > > BC2. \ > > > > BC3. \ > > > > BC4. \ > > OK, c’mon. You know you didn’t write this. I know you didn’t write this. We all know you didn’t write this. The sentence structure, the spelling, the punctuation, even the appearance of rationality are orders of magnitude beyond anything you’ve typed anyplace in this thread. > > Oh, and the Examiner link doesn’t work. Now why don’t you be a good little boy and go off and find an actual cite for your assertions, like **Hakuna Matata** asks, m’kay? > > By the way, Examiner appears to be nothing more than a glorified blog, an “experiment in citizen journalism” [(cite)](http://techcrunch.com/2008/10/22/the-examinercom-now-wants-to-become-a-bastion-of-citizen-journalism/) so I don’t think I’ll be putting much faith in it even if the link worked. Try again for a _real_ citation. I’m a little confused here, I never made the claim I wrote the article. For clarity I did not write the article. I do see you are upset and do not have a valid response so you go after host site. Let me help you out—go look up these references and get back to me. BC1. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961). BC2. (Section 57-8&9) BC3. (See Section 57- 9, 18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961). BC4. See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961.) But I will tell what will happen, you will never do the study, you will never look up the links, you will never look up the reference, you only read the first few sentences (or words) of a post, and then you will go back to making the claim that the article was not cited, was not posted, links don’t work, and it is just a stupid blog that no one should read written by a birther. Or worse yet, the article was written by underhanded, evil, white, attorney shark that wants to sell advertising. But GOD forbid you should look up state laws and learn something! Shit, that would take brain work, when insults are so much easier and fun….ha ha ha Don ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/434 "2010-08-04T15:56:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > Because he isn’t required to give out his records? If he did, every B grade he got would be harped on hysterical conspiracy theorists like yourself. > > A-grades, too, I expect, with cries of grade inflation, tokenism, favouritism, cheating, etc. The next demand will be for copies of all of Obama’s homework assignments to prove he deserved the grade he got. Failure to produce implies willful concealment. How do we know he actually wrote those assignments? Unless he produces the typewriter for forensic examination, how can we be sure that he actually wrote them? It’s funny, I mean he has the typewriter, it’s in his garage, why won’t he just release it to make all this go away? What I just wrote up there, is more clear and rational than anything Don has written in this thread. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/435 "2010-08-04T15:58:54Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > But GOD forbid you should look up state laws and learn something! Shit, that would take brain work, when insults are so much easier and fun….ha ha ha What’s to learn? He was born in a Hawaii hospital. The various hypothetical alternatives as covered by law are at best academic. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/436 "2010-08-04T16:03:10Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > I do see you are upset and do not have a valid response so you go after host site. > Let me help you out—go look up these references and get back to me. **Don123** , you are the one asserting they are valid. Shouldn’t you be the one to prove they are what you say they are? I see that text has made the rounds on Birther blogs. I do not see a single link to a state of Hawaii website showing it is an accurate representation of a law. > [@](#): > > But GOD forbid you should look up state laws and learn something! Shit, that would take brain work, when insults are so much easier and fun….ha ha ha You’ve got no grounds for saying this when you’re the one who screwed up your original cite in the first place. Other people looked up the law and learned it was passed in 1982. You had no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/437 "2010-08-04T16:05:44Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > But GOD forbid you should look up state laws and learn something! Shit, that would take brain work, when insults are so much easier and fun….ha ha ha You should be ashamed of your beliefs, not because they aren’t socially acceptable, but because they are the result of shamefully sloppy thinking. When someone points out your sloppy thinking, it isn’t an attack, it’s them trying to help you to discard your ignorance. You believe things that are not true, and you try to frame things that are prosaic as sinister. If you persist in posting factually untrue snippits and irrational chains of reasoning, people are going to keep pointing out that your beliefs are incorrect. If you want agreement in this thread you’ll need to make an attempt to think for yourself and actually understand the issues. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/438 "2010-08-04T16:19:00Z")
Here’s the short version of this claim about BC1-4 as I see it: BC1 applies to births attended by a physician. Obama’s birth was attended by a physician; he was born in a hospital and we know the name of the doctor who was on duty that night. Therefore he is the one who certified the facts, including that Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961. This certificate was filed on August 8, 1961. _If we assume that that didn’t happen even though there is no evidence for that view,_ we then get to a series of events where allegedly the parents or grandparents could have filed a birth certificate by mail saying he’d been born at that time and place and the state would accept it as genuine without question. There’s no evidence for this view: BC2 needs requires an examination of the child, which would not have been possible if the family was not in Hawaii. BC3 is described as a “Delayed Certificate,” and nowhere on the birth certificate does it say that it is a delayed certificate. This would not explain why the form was filed on August 8, either. And BC4 would have required someone to convince the state of Hawaii that he was born there - and there’s no discussion of what evidence would have been required, so we don’t know that simple testimony from the grandmother would have been enough. And there is still no evidence that they were not in the country at the time, and no explanation of when, where, and why that would’ve happened. Especially if his mother didn’t have a passport in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/439 "2010-08-04T16:33:22Z")
Amusingly enough, this little snippet was just on CNN’s website: [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/04/cnn-poll-quarter-doubt-president-was-born-in-u-s/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/08/04/cnn-poll-quarter-doubt-president-was-born-in-u-s/) Hawaii governor Lingle is quoted: Around that time, Lingle - who campaigned for Sen. John McCain and Sarah Palin in 2008 - criticized questions about the president’s birth. In a WABC interview before signing the legislation, Lingle said, “…I had my health director, who is a physician by background, go personally view the birth certificate in the birth records of the Department of Health.” Lingle added, " … The president was in fact born at Kapi’olani Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. And that’s just a fact." “It’s been established he was born here,” the governor continued. “I can understand why people want to make certain that the constitutional requirement of being a, you know, natural born American citizen … but the question has been asked and answered. And I think just we should all move on now.” (Not that this will make a damn bit of difference to the idiots who have already made up their minds and don’t wish to be confused with actual facts) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/440 "2010-08-04T16:35:31Z")
I posted that on Page 2 or 3, and it was promptly ignored. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877.md?page=23)