# Has Obama spent a million dollars to hide his birth certificate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 9, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877 "2009-08-09T22:44:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/501 "2010-08-05T01:18:37Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > Hange around you do make me giggle. You are better than a black that bashes his own race and thinks it funny. A black _what_? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/502 "2010-08-05T01:23:54Z")
> [@ManiacMan](#): > > I don’t understand how Obama can’t just get this “vault” copy…original copy or whatever and settle the issue once and for all. Umm..because we elected him President, not king? If the rules say he can’t do it, then he can’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/503 "2010-08-05T01:36:24Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Unless you want to make the blanket statement that EVERYONE who has even the slightest doubt is either a crackpot or a shit-stirrer? You forgot morons. I will happily state that anyone who has the slightest doubt that Barack Obama was born on August 4th, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii is a crackpot, or a shit-stirrer, or a moron. The evidence that he was born on that date in that place is clear, overwhelming, and inarguable. My statement appears to indicate that [58%](http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/04/rel10k.pdf) of Americans are crackpots, or shit-stirrers, or morons. Frankly, I’m surprised; that seems a bit low to me. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/504 "2010-08-05T01:40:12Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > It’s still the same tired and worn out lie. At this point, no one can use the excuse that they didn’t know or were misinformed, so it has to be deliberate. That’s all I can figure. While shielded by a bit of ambiguity, this is a bit too close to accusing another poster of lying in GD. Let’s back off that line of remarks. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/505 "2010-08-05T01:41:35Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > McCain does now, and drilling for oil. Completely, totally, and wholly irrelevant. It is a **fact** that the person who had the most to gain looked into the allegations and dismissed it. How is it that you know the truth but McCain didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/506 "2010-08-05T01:43:03Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > > [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > > > Unless you want to make the blanket statement that EVERYONE who has even the slightest doubt is either a crackpot or a shit-stirrer? > > You forgot morons. > > I will happily state that anyone who has the slightest doubt that Barack Obama was born on August 4th, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii is a crackpot, or a shit-stirrer, or a moron. The evidence that he was born on that date in that place is clear, overwhelming, and inarguable. > > My statement appears to indicate that [58%](http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/04/rel10k.pdf) of Americans are crackpots, or shit-stirrers, or morons. Frankly, I’m surprised; that seems a bit low to me. Under which of those categories do the deliberately ignorant fall? Y’know, the ones that are giving the proper information over and over and over again, but keep asking the same questions as if for the first time? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/507 "2010-08-05T01:48:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Under which of those categories do the deliberately ignorant fall? My statement was phrased to refer to a group of people that may or may not include posters on the SDMB. I don’t care to refine it any further in GD. Feel free to make your own choice. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/508 "2010-08-05T02:45:06Z")
Quick note about the law thing: don’t bother entertaining this argument. Regardless of what some people interpret Hawaii’s law as, it doesn’t trump the 14th amendment to the Constitution. In 1961, Hawaii was a state of the US, Obama was born there. It doesn’t matter what the state law says. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/509 "2010-08-05T04:54:15Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > Marly, I have done as you requested. You should know. What evidance do you require? > > I want to see that these laws were actually on the books in Hawaii. We showed you the actual birth certificate law (the one you didn’t mention was passed in 1982) on a Hawaii state webpage. You’re showing us an unsourced statement on a blog, and I’m asking for proof it’s genuine. People have certainly made up ridiculous garbage about Obama before, including a goofy fake Kenyan birth certificate. After you prove that law is genuine, maybe you could get around to showing it means what you say it means, and then you can post the evidence that the Obamas were not in Honolulu at the time he was born- because who cares what they could have done when the evidence says they were in Hawaii at the time anyway? You forgot to include the standard of reasoning. Shall it be “beyond a reasonable doubt” or “by the preponderance of the evidence”? Don ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/510 "2010-08-05T05:01:17Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Quick note about the law thing: don’t bother entertaining this argument. Regardless of what some people interpret Hawaii’s law as, it doesn’t trump the 14th amendment to the Constitution. In 1961, Hawaii was a state of the US, Obama was born there. It doesn’t matter what the state law says. I don’t get it; first you say do not bother interpreting the law, then you quote the law and interpret it to make your point. It seems you are in confusion. Or are you saying “trust me”. ha ha ha Don ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/511 "2010-08-05T05:08:28Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > McCain does now, and drilling for oil. > > Completely, totally, and wholly irrelevant. It is a **fact** that the person who had the most to gain looked into the allegations and dismissed it. How is it that you know the truth but McCain didn’t? So you are falling back to “truth by authority” as the standard of your argument. I did not know you thought so highly of McCain, did you vote for him? Don ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/512 "2010-08-05T05:17:02Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > You forgot to include the standard of reasoning. Shall it be “beyond a reasonable doubt” or “by the preponderance of the evidence”? Find some evidence instead of speculating about what might have happened and we’ll discuss it. To apply a standard of reasoning you have to start with _reason_. Your side is not there yet. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/513 "2010-08-05T05:35:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@ManiacMan](#): > > > > I don’t understand how Obama can’t just get this “vault” copy…original copy or whatever and settle the issue once and for all. > > Umm..because we elected him President, not king? If the rules say he can’t do it, then he can’t do it. > **[Hawaii State Department of Health](https://health.hawaii.gov)** > > Promoting Lifelong Health & Wellness 1. Birth Certificate or Certificate of Live Birth State law prohibits the DOH for disclosing any information about a Hawaii vital record unless the requestor has a direct and tangible interest in the record. Accordingly Obama has the ability, and authority, to obtain all the records on file in the state of Hawaii regarding his birth. And we are talking about the originals and not computer generated copies. Search the site above and you can find the state law but with more information. In addition, if you keep raising the standard of reason, you will reach a point that you must confess—YOU do not know where Obama was born, but you can believe what you like. Don ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/514 "2010-08-05T05:41:38Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > 1. Birth Certificate or Certificate of Live Birth > State law prohibits the DOH for disclosing any information about a Hawaii vital record unless the requestor has a direct and tangible interest in the record. > > Accordingly Obama has the ability, and authority, to obtain all the records on file in the state of Hawaii regarding his birth. Another reading failure, **Don123**. It does not say that. It says _no_ information can be disclosed unless the requestor has a legit interest. It does not say all records will be provided to anyone who asks. This is explained further down the page you just linked to: > [@](#): > > Haw. Rev. Stat. §338-18(d) states, “Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, type of vital event, and such other data as the director may authorize shall be made available to the public.” Refer to link above for HRS §338-18. > > Index data consisting of name and sex of the registrant, and type of event is made available to the public. The director, in accordance with HRS §338-18(d), has not authorized any other data to be made available to the public. So that information is all they can make public. And the Hawaiian authorities (Lingle, Fukino, Onaka) all say the same: they have disclosed everything they can disclose. The original records cannot be made public, period. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/515 "2010-08-05T05:42:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > You forgot to include the standard of reasoning. Shall it be “beyond a reasonable doubt” or “by the preponderance of the evidence”? > > Find some evidence instead of speculating about what might have happened and we’ll discuss it. To apply a standard of reasoning you have to start with _reason_. Your side is not there yet. So you are diving out with an insult. That is your choice to do, and common when you have do not away to defend your position. Don ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/516 "2010-08-05T05:48:05Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > So you are diving out with an insult. That is your choice to do, and common when you have do not away to defend your position. I’ve wasted a lot of time defending “my” position considering you haven’t done much except ignore the facts, make mistakes about the laws, and speculate blindly _sans evidence_ about a bunch of things that might have happened. The birth certificate has been released and it says he was born in Hawaii (and was filed a few days later), the announcements were released, the certificate was authenticated, and even the people who have the most to gain from challenging Obama’s legitimacy didn’t do it. You’ve got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Doo\_Gettalong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/fbc32d/32.png) [@Doo\_Gettalong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doo_Gettalong)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/517 "2010-08-05T05:56:52Z")
He’s our first Indonesian US President and (some would say) the anti-christ in the flesh. Big deal. It doesn’t affect me in the least. I’ve chosen my leader, and they can cut my head off for not supporting their tiny little agenda. No one will miss me…least of all our pretend president! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/518 "2010-08-05T05:58:16Z")
This just keeps getting better. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/519 "2010-08-05T06:13:48Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > Umm..because we elected him President, not king? If the rules say he can’t do it, then he can’t do it. > > [Hawaii State Department of Health](http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html) > > 1. Birth Certificate or Certificate of Live Birth > State law prohibits the DOH for disclosing any information about a Hawaii vital record unless the requestor has a direct and tangible interest in the record. > > Accordingly Obama has the ability, and authority, to obtain all the records on file in the state of Hawaii regarding his birth. And we are talking about the originals and not computer generated copies. Search the site above and you can find the state law but with more information. It’s possible the “originals” don’t exist anymore. That’s certainly the case for my own birth certificate. Nothing I could do could get the Pennsylvania authorities to release the original birth certificate, because it doesn’t exist – it was lost years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/520 "2010-08-05T06:19:05Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > Umm..because we elected him President, not king? If the rules say he can’t do it, then he can’t do it. > > [Hawaii State Department of Health](http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html) > > 1. Birth Certificate or Certificate of Live Birth > State law prohibits the DOH for disclosing any information about a Hawaii vital record unless the requestor has a direct and tangible interest in the record. > > Accordingly Obama has the ability, and authority, to obtain all the records on file in the state of Hawaii regarding his birth. And we are talking about the originals and not computer generated copies. Not true. He has the right to the information, but not to hard copies of any originals. Those belong to the state. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877.md?page=27)