# Has Obama spent a million dollars to hide his birth certificate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 9, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877 "2009-08-09T22:44:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/121 "2010-08-02T12:05:30Z")
Wait…“WND”? As in Wing Nut Daily? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/122 "2010-08-02T13:08:34Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > …And by the way blacks call me a racist all the time even when they are busted for showing up LATE for work. ha ha ha, it was Bush’s fault—ha ha ha > Don Well, I’ve read your only other post here. You **are** a racist. Enjoy your stay. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/123 "2010-08-02T13:23:06Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > But the point being Obama was adopted in Indonesia by his second father that made him a citizen of that country and by their law there is NO duel citizenship. If that is true, then under Indonesian law, Indonesia only recognises Obama’s Indonesian citizenship. However, the U.S. does allow its citizens to have dual citizenship. So, unless Obama has renounced his U.S. citizenship, or done something inconsistent with U.S. citizenship (such as serve as an officer in a military at war with the U.S.), he is still a U.S. citizen. And, for the purposes of the U.S. Constitution, U.S. law is what matters, not Indonesian law. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/124 "2010-08-02T13:27:39Z")
Uh oh! The wily negro escaped **Don123** ’s corner! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/125 "2010-08-02T13:45:26Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > But there are records that obama in his early 20’s used his Indonesia passport to go to Pakistan, that at the time was a NO travel zone to USA citizens. [_ **BZZZZZZTTTT!!!** _](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/passport.asp) Thank you for playing… ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/126 "2010-08-02T13:49:41Z")
[Quote=Don123] I bet if a white conservative republican that was born in Canada ran for USA presidency you liberals and blacks would be all up in arms.—you people are so funny at times. [/Quote] If a (solely) Canadian citizen ran for US President, would that not be a problem for you as well? If so, why would ‘liberals and blacks’ wanting to see the law followed be an issue for you? Meanwhile, you apparently concede that Obama was in fact born in the USA, and you clearly seem to have gotten completely wrong the US rights of someone holding dual citizenship, so I don’t see where the above argument is even relevant to the issue under discussion. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/127 "2010-08-02T13:53:26Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > But the point being Obama was adopted in Indonesia by his second father that made him a citizen of that country and by their law there is NO duel citizenship. > > If that is true, then under Indonesian law, Indonesia only recognises Obama’s Indonesian citizenship. > > However, the U.S. does allow its citizens to have dual citizenship. So, unless Obama has renounced his U.S. citizenship, or done something inconsistent with U.S. citizenship (such as serve as an officer in a military at war with the U.S.), he is still a U.S. citizen. And, for the purposes of the U.S. Constitution, U.S. law is what matters, not Indonesian law. I thought we didn’t officially recognize dual citizenship, but just that our citizenship claim supersedes others. It would make sense, as what good is your non-U.S. citizenship if you are in the U.S.? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/128 "2010-08-02T14:06:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I thought we didn’t officially recognize dual citizenship, but just that our citizenship claim supersedes others. It would make sense, as what good is your non-U.S. citizenship if you are in the U.S.? I said that the U.S. allows dual citizenship, which is not quite the same thing as recognising it. That means that the U.S: (1) does not require people to choose between retaining U.S. citizenship and another citizenship; (2) does not take away U.S. citizenship from citizens who acquire another citizenship (e.g., by naturalisation); (3) does not require naturalised U.S. citizens to renounce other citizenship (reven though the oath taken by a new citizen appears to do this). Some other countries do not allow dual citizenship – China is an example of that, which can cause problems for people who otherwise would be dual citizens. A second citizenship doesn’t really have much use for a U.S. citizen living in the U.S., except for such things as voting absentee in elections held in the second country. In particular, they can’t get consular assistance if they get into trouble in the U.S. in theway that a non-U.S. citizen can. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/129 "2010-08-02T14:11:00Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > In these cases the child must, by US law, in order to keep his USA citizenship announce his USA citizenship by simply filling out a government form on his 18th birthday. There are NO records that obama did that. Surprisingly, if I remember right, this is ALMOST correct. In order to get _rid_ of your US citizenship, you must fill out a government form to _renounce_ it, not announce it. Once you’re a US citizen, it’s almost impossible to get out. A lot of people who don’t want to pay their taxes have tried. Let’s ask the Perfect Master how to do it. > **[How do I go about renouncing my U.S. citizenship?](https://www.straightdope.com/21342020/how-do-i-go-about-renouncing-my-u-s-citizenship)** > [@Cecil](#): > > (1) Leave the country. (…) > (2) Apply for citizenship somewhere else. Strictly speaking this is optional (…) > (3) Go to a U.S. embassy or consulate and tell them you want to renounce your citizenship. Often they’ll try to talk you out of it, tell you to come back after you’ve slept it off, etc. Persist. Eventually they’ll have you sign an oath of renunciation, an affidavit affirming the oath, and a “statement of understanding,” which basically asks you if you’re sure you know what you’re doing. You also have to supply certain tax-related info and turn in your passport. The consular officer overseeing the proceedings must sign an attestation saying that in his opinion you’re not off your nut. The papers will then be forwarded to the U.S. state department, which in the fullness of time will issue you a Certificate of Loss of Nationality. You’re officially un-American. Lotsa luck. Buddy, you got Obama’s Certificate of Loss of Nationality? Cause if you don’t, he’s still a citizen. It doesn’t really matter to the US what some _other_ country thinks. I mean, you want the UN going around and saying ‘Oh, this guy isn’t a citizen?’ Or Iran? I think not! ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/130 "2010-08-02T14:16:22Z")
But don’t believe me. Listen to the Feds. > **[404 - Page Not Found](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/404.html)** > [@The State Department](#): > > A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship: > > 1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer, > 2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and > 3. sign an oath of renunciation > > Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below. > > F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN > > Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship. And there’s the 18 thing. See, you got ‘announce’ and ‘renounce’ backwards. You do know what ‘renounce’ means, Don? It’s a big word. So, it’s impossible for Obama’s parents to have gotten rid of his citizenship for him, before he turned 18. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/131 "2010-08-02T14:36:34Z")
Welcome to the Dope, **Don123**! I for one hope you’ll stick around. Should make for lots of entertaining reading. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/132 "2010-08-02T14:38:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > _Kreep???_ interesting last name for a lawyer, eh? almost as good as dick swett former congressman from n.h. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/133 "2010-08-02T14:44:11Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > You know you have a black backed up into a corner… …when they turn into a rook. Is that it? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/134 "2010-08-02T15:03:07Z")
> [@Dick\_Dastardly](#): > > Orly whatshername is a lawyer, a dentist and a real estate agent. I think that says it all really. And she doesn’t exactly have a midwestern accent herself, where’s her birth certificate? I believe Orly is originally from Israel. What I would like to know is did she have any sort of psychological exam before entering the IDF (the Israelie military service requies both sexes) and if so what were the results (like did she skate with the Israelie equivalency of a Section 8)? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/135 "2010-08-02T15:16:25Z")
For the record, Barack Obama was never adopted by his stepfather. That’s false. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/136 "2010-08-02T15:44:09Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I believe Orly is originally from Israel. What I would like to know is did she have any sort of psychological exam before entering the IDF (the Israelie military service requies both sexes) and if so what were the results (like did she skate with the Israelie equivalency of a Section 8)? She is originally from the USSR (specifically, Moldova). She emigrated to Israel in her early twenties, and I can’t find any reference to her serving in the IDF. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/137 "2010-08-02T15:57:50Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > You know you have a black backed up into a corner, that they cannot get out of, when they start yelling racist as that is their only defense. BTW, thanks for being the one of the very few reasons that pulling the race card still has any credibility left. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/138 "2010-08-02T16:53:01Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > > > I believe Orly is originally from Israel. What I would like to know is did she have any sort of psychological exam before entering the IDF (the Israelie military service requies both sexes) and if so what were the results (like did she skate with the Israelie equivalency of a Section 8)? > > She is originally from the USSR (specifically, Moldova). She emigrated to Israel in her early twenties, and I can’t find any reference to her serving in the IDF. I’m also willing to bet that she Hebrewized her name. Girl was born an Olga. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/139 "2010-08-02T17:16:54Z")
In the book Found here: > **[Barry Soetoro](https://www.indonesiamatters.com/2952/barry-soetoro/)** In the book that obama claims he wrote, Dreams from My Father, he attended public school in Indonesia, and as I understand it, citizenship of that country was required for schooling, along with stating a person’s religion and in obama’s case that was Muslim. Things get sticky when a person is born to a USA parent then adopted as a child into a foreign country. This is covered by a USA government form that the child must fill out after their 18th birthday that is a “restatement” and claiming USA citizenship, there by passing over the common road of immigration. There are no records of obama filing any such USA required forms of claiming USA citizenship, or at least none have been found to date. But as the federal judge said in his personal opinion, not that of a legal case, the entire thing is moot. The USA has considered Obama a USA citizen eligible for presidency by popular vote and NO federal judge (if he wants to keep his job, and see the light of the next day) will rule on the case other wise, regardless of the facts no matter how blatant. To do so may start a race riot by the blacks. In other words obama is eligible for presidency be it by omission of evidance or by fact; obama’s story is good enough for the public and that is what counts with any judge hearing the case. Also the 100 some court cases filed against obama’s being eligible for presidency, if not cut off at filing or thrown out of court, would seriously damage the flow of power and election process of the USA. For these reasons no federal judge will seriously consider the case regardless of the facts. I having read several of these cases, from court documents found on line by any one, can testify many were thrown out or dismissed on the extreme far reaches of legal reasoning to just being ridicules, as the plaintiff not having legal standing when if fact they do. It is NOT made clear by these many cases who “DOES” have legal standing to file the case? As to the amount of money obama has spent in over all legal fees in his defense over his citizenship it would be reasonable a million buck or so would not be out of line. All of what could have been laid to rest with presentation of a valid birth certificate, and NOT a blatantly forged copy stating a live birth as was common in Hawaii at the time. You might as well say God ordained obama to be a USA citizen—for all the good it will do you, as God will never take the witness stand. These so called conspiracy theories get started by lack of evidence showing proof positive that the scheme was NOT hatched by the powers that be. Most all these theories die as soon as valid evidence is shown to the contrary. As for my personal opinion that means nothing and has no weight—Obama is a big fat fraud regardless of where he was born. His life is what he made it and being born black was not his choice. However, his actions and behaviors are his choice and he is responsible. Of course he (and his wifey) are racist, you would be deaf and blind to say other wise, but I can live with that, every one is a racist to some degree. I rather like the division that obama has created between the races in the USA, as it blows away the liberal propaganda you have been trying to cram down our children’s throat. The best you can expect from people is tolerance of other races, backed up by laws with teeth, not personal acceptance nor personal choice, as no law can dictate how a person feels or thinks. Blacks just have to live with it. That is as good as it gets. Don ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/140 "2010-08-02T17:26:49Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > As to the amount of money obama has spent in over all legal fees in his defense over his citizenship it would be reasonable a million buck or so would not be out of line. All of what could have been laid to rest with presentation of a valid birth certificate, and NOT a blatantly forged copy stating a live birth as was common in Hawaii at the time. A forgery so blatant the Republican governor of Hawaii endorsed it. The conspiracy runs deep! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877.md?page=8)