# Has Obama spent a million dollars to hide his birth certificate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 9, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877 "2009-08-09T22:44:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/161 "2010-08-02T19:20:23Z")
> [@](#): > > As I understand it, McCain put his birth records on public file, full disclosure, and he met the standard of eligibility for presidency. I also believe the USA Military Panama base his father was sent to was some what of a colony of the USA at the time (that president Carter gave away). I’m sure with some digging there is a military law, chapter and verse, that grants citizenship to children born to USA parents while on active military duty in a foreign country. > Palin also put her birth records on public file as being born in Alaska to USA parents. YES Alaska is a USA state, in case you did not know it. Hilary also put her records up for public inspection along with Biden. The only person who has failed is Obama, and his internet cheap copy of a live birth, and his million dollar legal fees with massive legal maneuvering to keep documents hidden, does not cut the mustard. OK, here’s [Obama’s documentation](http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg). I’m sure you have links for McCain’s, Palin’s, and Clinton’s? And there is in fact question about McCain’s citizenship. At the time of his birth, a baby would have natural-born citizenship if born within the United States, or if born outside the jurisdiction of the United States to American parents. Which category do you assert McCain falls into? ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/162 "2010-08-02T19:20:39Z")
[QUOTE=Huerta88] 3. My mother has a copy of my jittery blurry old original birth certificate in the family safe. Doesn’t Ma Obama, and again, why hasn’t she/he just xeroxed that and posted it? [/QUOTE] Take a close look at that original birth certificate you have. I also have one like that, issued by the hospital where I was born, complete with jittery signature and prints of my feet. At the top, it says “Birth Certificate” in large print, but on the back, in very small print, it says, “Not an official birth certificate” or something to that effect. Those certificates were issued as commemorative documents, but would not be accepted as proof of birth if you were to get a passport, marriage license, etc. The only official, original birth certificate you have is the one issued by the Dept of Health in the state you were born. They keep the original and will provide an official, certified copy to you upon request. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/163 "2010-08-02T19:25:17Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > > [@Don123](#): > > > > Yes it would make a difference to me as I am a constitutionalist, the USA constitution is engraved in stone, and is not a living document. > > > > If there is a valid question as to a person’s US birth citizenship I would error in favor of disallowing that person to run for presidency until ALL the facts are put on the table in plain sight of the voting public. > > Oh, then we can end this right now. There has been no valid question of Obama’s citizenship, the wishes of various conservatives notwithstanding. > > Meanwhile, I would love to hear more about this ‘not a living document’ stuff, maybe in another thread. You want to roll back all the amendments, or what? Don: You are right, another thread would be in line on the constitution when I have more time. But remember the constitution does allow for a process of amendments. The fact there are amendments does not void the original document that said their could be amendments but only with due process. Court orders amending the document, or presidential decrees, is NOT the process allowed in the constitution. You should read up on it and save me some time. It is your conspiracy theory, and opinion, that Obama is a born Citizen. All that needs to be shown is reasonable doubt for investigation, and this has not been accomplished by any valid court—in spite of about 100 cases filed, most were dismissed by the judge ruling the plaintiff has no legal standing to make the complaint, and NOT on the facts of the case. It is sort of like a Grand Jury, reasonable cause of action only needs to shown, not the out come of the trial. Many claim there is reasonable action to be taken for an investigation that Obama was not born in the USA, and or is not a valid USA citizen. But rather than have a valid court hearing, or Senate investigation, all you can come up with is name calling. But again this is a moot point—you wanted a black president, so you found a clean one and put him in office. Oh, Biden said that not I. Don Don ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/164 "2010-08-02T19:26:18Z")
Orly Taitz’ position (which could be said to be _the_ definitive birther position, since she and her ex are the only ones arguing it in courts of law) is that he wasn’t born in Hawaii, and that even if he was he isn’t eligible to be President because of the laws regarding citizenship then in effect (including his father’s citizenship and his mother’s supposed underage status), and/or because of some other procedural issue. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/165 "2010-08-02T19:27:58Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Again, not having immersed myself in it, are the birthers disputing anything other than their factual claim that he was **not** born in Hawaii? Well, **Don123** seems to think that being adopted by a non-citizen (which in this case apparently did not happen anyway) somehow magically erased Obama’s citizenship. I have no idea whether this is a widespread belief amongst birthers, but most of the ones I’ve ever heard from seem pretty eager to grasp at any straw. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/166 "2010-08-02T19:28:37Z")
We don’t have to prove a thing. **You** are the one questioning reality. It’s up to you to prove things. You’ve got nothing, and will keep blathering until someone pays attention to your cry-baby whining. I suggest calling your mom. ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/167 "2010-08-02T19:29:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > As I understand it, McCain put his birth records on public file, full disclosure, and he met the standard of eligibility for presidency. I also believe the USA Military Panama base his father was sent to was some what of a colony of the USA at the time (that president Carter gave away). I’m sure with some digging there is a military law, chapter and verse, that grants citizenship to children born to USA parents while on active military duty in a foreign country. > > Palin also put her birth records on public file as being born in Alaska to USA parents. YES Alaska is a USA state, in case you did not know it. Hilary also put her records up for public inspection along with Biden. The only person who has failed is Obama, and his internet cheap copy of a live birth, and his million dollar legal fees with massive legal maneuvering to keep documents hidden, does not cut the mustard. > > OK, here’s [Obama’s documentation](http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg). I’m sure you have links for McCain’s, Palin’s, and Clinton’s? > > And there is in fact question about McCain’s citizenship. At the time of his birth, a baby would have natural-born citizenship if born within the United States, or if born outside the jurisdiction of the United States to American parents. Which category do you assert McCain falls into? Your question is answered, read my post again. Don ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/168 "2010-08-02T19:42:22Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > It is your conspiracy theory, and opinion, that Obama is a born Citizen. All that needs to be shown is reasonable doubt for investigation, and this has not been accomplished by any valid court—in spite of about 100 cases filed, most were dismissed by the judge ruling the plaintiff has no legal standing to make the complaint, and NOT on the facts of the case. So, you say most were dismissed for lack of legal standing. Do you dispute a speciifc case where you believe the person bringing the case did have legal standing? If so, are you a judge or lawyer, so I can at least have some idea whether you seem to know what you are talking about? Meanwhile, what about the ones that were not dismissed because the person bringing the case did not have legal standing? All of them were were dismissed as well, right? Presumably at least one such ruling was determined on the merits (or lack of merit) of the case, no? > [@](#): > > Many claim there is reasonable action to be taken for an investigation that Obama was not born in the USA, and or is not a valid USA citizen. But rather than have a valid court hearing, or Senate investigation, all you can come up with is name calling. I have no power to determine the merits of a case in open court, or argue legal issues in front of the Senate, so I have no idea what point you think you are making. Forgive me, have I called you a name? Oh, Birther? Does that not describe a person who (apparently falsely) believes Obama is not a citizen? If I have offended you, you have my sincere apologies. I will not describe you by that term again; instead, I will only refer to you as a person who does not believe Obama is a citizen. > [@](#): > > But again this is a moot point—you wanted a black president, so you found a clean one and put him in office. Oh, Biden said that not I. I did? When did I say that, exactly? Or Biden, for that matter? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/169 "2010-08-02T19:47:33Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Okay, let me say I don’t dispute Obama’s U.S. birth (the newspaper birth announcement was what made it pretty plain to me that no one could/would fake something that far in advance). > > But someone please give me the factual answer to the following (because frankly I’ve been too lazy to immerse myself in this whole cluster freak): > > 1. That green “certification” that was linked at the very beginning of the OP – it isn’t the claim that that was prepared in 1960, is it? It looks way too modern (security paper, looks computer-printed, has the word “laser” at the bottom). So, would people who believe Obama say “that green thing is a modern day abstract of archivally-verified, accurate information?” I was born in Pennsylvania in 1962. Some years ago, I lost my original birth certificate. I wrote to the vital statistics office for them to send me a new, certified copy in case I needed it for some purpose. The one they sent is a computer printed form which looks very similar to the one that’s been presented in the news as Obama’s. It is the only kind of birth certificate I have, or can get. So I definitely believe that Obama’s is real. It’s what states produce nowadays, if you ask for an official birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/170 "2010-08-02T19:51:24Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > he attended public school in Indonesia, and as I understand it, citizenship of that country was required for schooling, along with stating a person’s religion and in obama’s case that was Muslim [_ **BZZZZZZTTTT!!!** _](http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp) Thank you for playing… ---
**Author:** ![Don123](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@Don123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don123)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/171 "2010-08-02T19:53:41Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > > [@Huerta88](#): > > > > Again, not having immersed myself in it, are the birthers disputing anything other than their factual claim that he was **not** born in Hawaii? > > Well, **Don123** seems to think that being adopted by a non-citizen (which in this case apparently did not happen anyway) somehow magically erased Obama’s citizenship. I have no idea whether this is a widespread belief amongst birthers, but most of the ones I’ve ever heard from seem pretty eager to grasp at any straw. Actually I’m reserving judgment on obama’s citizenship until I see more facts of the case, but I will die if I hold my breath. So far obama has managed to get every case thrown out of court for flippant reasons, even in one case after his attorneys did not file a response on time and the case should have proceed, or Obama lost by default, that is common rules of the court for a late response. I am saying there is reasonable doubt, Obama’s story does not add up, and questions abound, so what is wrong with having some answers? Hypothetically so what if Obama was not qualified for the presidency? There are many blacks you can choose from, along with Asians and American Indians. You think blacks have taken a bigger beating from whites than the American Indians? Think again. Perhaps you can answer a question that I am not able to find. Who is qualified to bring court suit against a person, or an organization as the Democratic Party, running for president that has doubtful born citizenship? The courts do not seem to know, or the judge is playing stupid or not willing to start a black riot, so maybe you can find out. Don ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/172 "2010-08-02T19:54:40Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > The only person who has failed is Obama, and his internet cheap copy of a live birth, and his million dollar legal fees with massive legal maneuvering to keep documents hidden, does not cut the mustard. I’m still waiting for some proof Obama has spent one dime or filed one court paper to keep his birth certificate hidden. And, no, I **don’t** mean what the solicitor general or whoever may have spent or filed to fight groundless lawsuits by Orly Taitz, etc. I mean something that would muzzle the Secretary of State of Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/173 "2010-08-02T19:58:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And, no, I **don’t** mean what the solicitor general or whoever may have spent or filed to fight groundless lawsuits by Orly Taitz, etc. O RLY is Exhibit A for loser-pays tort reform. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/174 "2010-08-02T20:13:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > > > I believe Orly is originally from Israel. What I would like to know is did she have any sort of psychological exam before entering the IDF (the Israelie military service requies both sexes) and if so what were the results (like did she skate with the Israelie equivalency of a Section 8)? > > She is originally from the USSR (specifically, Moldova). She emigrated to Israel in her early twenties, and I can’t find any reference to her serving in the IDF. Interesting, so she has refused to confirm whether or not she was disqualified for IDF on the grounds of mental defect.? Or perhaps, is she in fact a draft dodger in her former country? Show us the discharge papers Orly! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/175 "2010-08-02T20:21:37Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > So far obama has managed to get every case thrown out of court for flippant reasons Cite? As far as I know, Obama has never even bothered to respond to any of them. They’ve all been dismissed as frivolous by the judges. > [@](#): > > I am saying there is reasonable doubt, Obama’s story does not add up, and questions abound What doesn’t add up? what questions do you have. I’ll be happy to answer them for you. > [@](#): > > Perhaps you can answer a question that I am not able to find. Who is qualified to bring court suit against a person, or an organization as the Democratic Party, running for president that has doubtful born citizenship? The courts do not seem to know, or the judge is playing stupid or not willing to start a black riot, so maybe you can find out. A “black riot?” Man, you don’t do yourself any favors. As to standing, it would probably be the candidate’s opponent, but maybe not even that. Standing is the least of your issues, though. The biggest prblem is that Obama’s citizenship status has already been established beyond any doubt whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/176 "2010-08-02T20:21:39Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > The only person who has failed is Obama, and his internet cheap copy of a live birth, and his million dollar legal fees with massive legal maneuvering to keep documents hidden, does not cut the mustard. Perhaps you missed it, but I requested cites for Obama’s legal fees back in post #144. Perhaps you should support this claim before repeating it again, especially in a thread that was opened to debate this claim specifically. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/177 "2010-08-02T20:21:59Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > > And, no, I **don’t** mean what the solicitor general or whoever may have spent or filed to fight groundless lawsuits by Orly Taitz, etc. > > O RLY is Exhibit A for loser-pays tort reform. Well, more like Exh. An for all values of n ----\> ∞ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/178 "2010-08-02T20:23:34Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > Perhaps you can answer a question that I am not able to find. Who is qualified to bring court suit against a person, or an organization as the Democratic Party, running for president that has doubtful born citizenship? The courts do not seem to know, or the judge is playing stupid or not willing to start a black riot, so maybe you can find out. > > Don I’m a lawyer and I’ve been following this business from the beginning, and all I can tell you is, no one seems to know. There are no relevant statutes or constitutional provisions as to who would have such standing. Nor is there any precedent for challenging the native-citizenship status of a POTUS or presidential candidate. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/179 "2010-08-02T20:30:17Z")
> [@Don123](#): > > Things get sticky when a person is born to a USA parent then adopted as a child into a foreign country. This is covered by a USA government form that the child must fill out after their 18th birthday that is a “restatement” and claiming USA citizenship, there by passing over the common road of immigration. > > Don This is not true. I just showed you where the State Department covers renunciation of your citizenship. It is VERY HARD to do. A parent can not take away a child’s citizenship. Ever. I showed you. > **[404 - Page Not Found](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/404.html)** > [@](#): > > F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN > > Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship. Do you understand this? It is plain english. If you do not believe this is true, show me the law that says it is false. Because I am showing you the law of the land. I am an American. Kidnap me. Sell me into slavery. Kill my parents, take my land. Raise me as your own. I will still be an American. As my parents were, and as their parents were, as my sixth great-grandfather who fought at the battle of New York and at Valley Forge was. He risked everything so you can sit at your desk and talk lightly about tossing away what so many died to forge. You, sir, are unAmerican. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877/180 "2010-08-02T20:35:52Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > 1. My mother has a copy of my jittery blurry old original birth certificate in the family safe. Doesn’t Ma Obama, and again, why hasn’t she/he just xeroxed that and posted it? I would love to see a horror movie where Ann Dunham comes back to life as a zombie to defend her son, and gets revenge on all the birthers by murdering them and eating their brains. She’s an unstoppable killing machine, but in the end she falls down and dies again, and we realize it’s from starvation, having never found even a single brain to eat in any of her victims. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-obama-spent-a-million-dollars-to-hide-his-birth-certificate/505877.md?page=10)