If only this were true, my life would be much simpler. As a genealogy researcher I can attest that hospital records are not kept forever; often they are destroyed after as little as 40 years. Birth certificates also have a habit of vanishing and getting lost, misplaced, being damaged by water, even in one case eaten by mice. I have people within my own family in the 20th century for whom no birth certificate can be found. I have relatives who stayed in the hospital for 3+ weeks and died there, for which there is no record whatsoever (other than the newspaper reports and family memories).
I don’t speak as to whether Obama is a citizen or not, but let’s not think that records like birth certificates are treated like gold.
Any contention that he’s refusing to answer questions is bullshit. This is more than enough evidence for any reasonable person to conclude that the birth certificate is real and that he was born in Hawaii. Instead you’re demanding forgery experts. Who forged the certificate and when - it doesn’t matter. If experts looked at it, there would be a problem with their objectivity or credentials. Or with some analysis technique they didn’t use which suddenly all of Obama’s critics are experts about, and which would finally settle the question once and for all. But since it wasn’t used everything is still up in the air. You might deny this but we can see it’s true. Because this is not about evidence and it’s not about birth certificates. It’s about denial.
I keep hearing this bugaboo that won’t die about how Obama has spent umpty-gazillon sooper-secret dollars hiding his birth certificate. Obama has spent approximately nothing hiding his birth certificate. Let me repeat that for clarity: Obama has spent approximately nothing hiding his birth certificate. This is because every single challenge filed by Orly Taitz against Obama has been against him in his official capacity as President and accordingly answered by the Department of Justice, as part of their jobs, for nothing other than what it costs the taxpayer to have the Department of Justice diverted from their usual work. Even then the lead federal attorney defending Orly’s latest entertaining fiasco told reporters a short whle back that defending against Orly’s claims has been nothing more than a nuisance:
Seriously, how could it possibly be expensive? Every single lawsuit she makes is disposed of in summary judgment! She gets $20,000 in sanctions for her lawsuits! If anything, they’re profitable! Stop, for the love of God, stop! Obama spends nothing! The lawsuits accomplish nothing! For God’s sake, focus on the midterms or something!
Don123, how’s it coming with those cites showing Obama paying legal fees to avoid showing his birth certificate? You know, the ones you’ve been asked for at least three times, to support your own statements? AKA the subject of this thread?
Susanann, feel free to provide them too, if you have them. Assuming you’re actually a different person from Don123.
Depends on the field of practice. I’m in personal injury right now – contingency fees only; if we win the case we get a share of what we recover, otherwise nothing; no hourly billing. Other fields have different fee arrangements. Public-sector lawyers – including public defenders, public prosecutors, and attorneys of the U.S. Solicitor General’s Office – work on straight salary, no case-specific or client-specific fees involved.
:rolleyes: Some people still have their BC originally issued in a drawer somewhere, maybe somewhere in their parents’ house; some don’t. If you write the relevant authority in the county of your birth and request a copy of your birth certificate, you’ll get something in the mail that might be a photocopy of the original, or might be something like Obama posted on the Internet during the campaign – depending on the state, not depending on what you request. If the latter, you have no authority to “release your birth certificate,” the relevant authorities have already done that. What’s done with the “vault copy” is not up to you. It might be digitized and destroyed at some point; depends on the state, perhaps even on the county. (Aren’t RWs always touting the virtues of federalism and local-government autonomy?)
I keep saying that it’s a total, total myth that there’s a difference between “Certificate of Live Birth” and “Birth Certificate”. Some states use one term, other states use the other.
I wonder of Don and Sus would do us the favor of admitting they were wrong?
One of the defining characteristics of Birthers seems to be that they have no intention of admitting that something they said is incorrect, even when shown directly.
Do not accuse other posters of being sock puppets. If you have a serious reason to believe that about a poster, (beyond simply thinking that you don’t like their similar arguments), then Report the situation.
Given the way the Founders set up the Electoral College as a filter between direct democracy and the Presidency, most likely they saw it as the electors’ job to satisfy themselves that they were electing an eligible candidate. They have made and rendered their determination.
This assertion is idiotic even by birther standards.
“I shall issue a decree making all Americans also citizens of Kookistan! They shall have NO ONE eligible to be their President and fall into CHAOS!!! MWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!”
The legal right to initiate a lawsuit. To do so, a person must be sufficiently affected by the matter at hand, and there must be a case or controversy that can be resolved by legal action.There are three requirements for Article III standing: (1) injury in fact, which means an invasion of a legally protected interest that is (a) concrete and particularized, and (b) actual or imminent, not conjectural or hypothetical; (2) a causal relationship between the injury and the challenged conduct, which means that the injury fairly can be traced to the challenged action of the defendant, and has not resulted from the independent action of some third party not before the court; and (3) a likelihood that the injury will be redressed by a favorable decision, which means that the prospect of obtaining relief from the injury as a result of a favorable ruling is not too speculative. Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife, 112 S. Ct. 2130, 2136 (1992) (Lujan). The party invoking federal jurisdiction bears the burden of establishing each of these elements. Id.
In deciding whether xxx has standing, a court must consider the allegations of fact contained in xxx’s declaration and other affidavits in support of his assertion of standing. See Warth v. Seldin, 422 U.S. 490, 501 (1974) (Warth). see also Warth, 422 U.S. at 501 (when addressing motion to dismiss for lack of standing, both district court and court of appeals must accept as true all material allegations of the complaint and must construe the complaint in favor of the party claiming standing).
Standing is founded "in concern about the proper–and properly limited–role of the courts in a democratic society. " Warth, 422 U.S. at 498. When an individual seeks to avail himself of the federal courts to determine the validity of a legislative action, he must show that he “is immediately in danger of sustaining a direct injury.” Ex parte Levitt, 302 U.S. 633, 634 (1937). This requirement is necessary to ensure that "federal courts reserve their judicial power for `concrete legal issues, presented in actual cases, not abstractions.’ " Associated General Contractors of California v. Coalition for Economic Equity, 950 F.2d 1401, 1406 (9th Cir. 1991) (quoting United Public Workers, 330 U.S. at 89), cert. denied, 112 S. Ct. 1670 (1992). National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), 42 U.S.C. S 4331, et seq.
JURISDICTION
A power constitutionally conferred upon a judge or magistrate, to take cognizance of and decide causes according to law and to carry his sentence into execution. The tract of land or district within which a judge or magistrate has jurisdiction, is called his territory and his power in relation to his territory is called his territorial jurisdiction.
Every act of jurisdiction exercised by a judge without his territory, either by pronouncing sentence or carrying it into execution, is null. An inferior court has no jurisdiction beyond what is expressly delegated.
Please provide your calculations and any documentation which led you to this figure. Thank you.
Please provide any evidence you have located which supports this assertion. Thank you.
Please provide a quote from the Constitution which states that one parent being a non-US citizen precludes a child from being a US citizen by birth. Thank you.
Please explain (cites would be great too) the actual difference between these two, and why a “birth certificate” would serve as legal proof that a person was born at a particular time in a particular place, yet a “certificate of live birth” does not serve as legal proof of such. Thank you.
Please provide a link to these documents which John McCain has provided. Thank you.
