# Has one country's leader ever killed another? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 23, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244 "2009-09-23T15:22:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/1 "2009-09-23T15:22:39Z")
Lets say, in the last few hundred years or so, when a king or leader wouldnt actually charge into battle with his troops. Any presidents, prime-ministers, or monarchs actually kill another one, not during war, but under some peaceful pretense? The scenario I’m thinking of is if someone like Ahmadinejad were to come and speak at the UN HQ in New York, and Obama happened to be there. Maybe he sneaks a gun or a knife in on him with the plan to assassinate our president. If he were to plan that, who’s going to search him? I suspect leaders of countries are not often patted down by security. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/2 "2009-09-23T16:52:33Z")
I don’t think so. It’s not common in [war](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spolia_opima) either. ---
**Author:** ![pan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@pan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pan1)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/3 "2009-09-23T17:58:15Z")
There are remarkably few national leaders in history who, during their reign, held a weapon in combat. I think I found a couple cases of a National Leader killing another: Marcus Claudius Marcellus, a roman consul, killed the Gallic military leader and king, Viridomarus. Marcus Licinius Crassus Dives, another Roman consul in the year 30 BC killed King Deldo of the Bastarnae in Macedonia. Not sure if this counts because unlike the previous mention, a consul was not the highest roman office at the time. Beyond that, the only cases I have found were probably mythical. I couldn’t locate a single case of a national leader dying mysteriously in another country - or one of a world leader acting directly to kill another. There are several cases where an agent, acting on direct orders of a ruler, commits the act, but none where the ruler held the weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/4 "2009-09-23T18:32:36Z")
> [@pan1](#): > > There are several cases where an agent, acting on direct orders of a ruler, commits the act, but none where the ruler held the weapon. Kings don’t kill kings. Any chess player could have told you that. That’s what the pawns are for. Incidentally (or, rather, coincidentally) I was just reading about a WW2 double agent yesterday. The man handed Churchill [an opportunity to assassinate Hitler](http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/article1290741.ece) on a silver platter, but Winston squashed the operation for undisclosed reasons. Possibly because it just wasn’t cricket ? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/5 "2009-09-23T19:54:33Z")
The British targeted only one top Nazi leader for assassination during the war, the “Butcher of Prague,” Reinhard Heydrich, who was killed by two British-trained Czech partisans in 1942: [Reinhard Heydrich - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Heydrich). I’ve read that the War Cabinet considered the assassination of Hitler but ruled it out because he was actually a hindrance to the German war effort, and might have been replaced by a better strategist. “Better the devil you know…” ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/6 "2009-09-23T20:15:39Z")
Didn’t actually succeed but Richard the Third led his personal bodyguard into a charge straight at Henry Tudor at the Battle of Bosworth Field,apparently he came so close to killing Henry but was hacked down within feet of Henry Tudor by numerous Knights and men at arms. His body was not treated well. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/7 "2009-09-23T20:36:45Z")
Richard III was also present when Henry VI was killed. Henry had been deposed, and no one knows if Richard did the deed, but Richard was seen at the Tower that night. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/8 "2009-09-23T20:49:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Kings don’t kill kings. Any chess player could have told you that. That’s what the pawns are for. But any reader of Tolkien would beg to differ. In just about every battle, the leader of one army winds up killing the leader of the other in single combat (OK, so I can’t think of a lot of examples where borth were kings). ---
**Author:** ![pan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@pan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pan1)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/9 "2009-09-23T20:57:44Z")
If we allow for A national leader (King) to be killed by someone who then becomes a national leader of the same country -the field opens up a bit. There are numerous cases throughout history of impatient heirs taking a personal role in hastening the circumstances of their inheriting the crown. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/10 "2009-09-23T21:16:03Z")
Was Goliath a national leader? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/11 "2009-09-23T21:30:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Was Goliath a national leader? No, but then again, David wasn’t either. Saul was king of Israel at the time. Saul, who notably, did NOT kill the king of Amalek earlier in his royal career. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/12 "2009-09-23T22:51:43Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Didn’t actually succeed but Richard the Third led his personal bodyguard into a charge straight at Henry Tudor at the Battle of Bosworth Field,apparently he came so close to killing Henry but was hacked down within feet of Henry Tudor by numerous Knights and men at arms. > > His body was not treated well. Ditto [Constantine XI Palaiologos](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_XI_Palaiologos), the last Byzantine emperor. When Constantinople fell he discarded his purple cloak (symbolic of his rank) and personally led his remaining soldiers on a last charge. There’s debate over whether his body was indentified (by his purple boots) and his head sent to the Sultun, or he went unidentified and was buried in a mass grave. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/13 "2009-09-23T23:22:23Z")
Since Peter the Great enjoyed doing his own "wet work, if Charles XII had become his prisoner after Poltava, we might have had the definitive answer. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/14 "2009-09-23T23:29:49Z")
[Peter of Castile](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_of_Castile) and his half brother [Henry II of Castile](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_II_of_Castile) alternated the throne and deposed each other a few times. Henry eventually personally killed his brother. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/15 "2009-09-23T23:45:48Z")
In the Mob, you’re not a bigshot if you kill people, you’re a bigshot if you order people killed. Monarchy works much the same. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/16 "2009-09-24T03:32:15Z")
> [@pan1](#): > > There are remarkably few national leaders in history who, during their reign, held a weapon in combat. > > I think I found a couple cases of a National Leader killing another: > > Marcus Claudius Marcellus, a roman consul, killed the Gallic military leader and king, Viridomarus. > > Marcus Licinius Crassus Dives, another Roman consul in the year 30 BC killed King Deldo of the Bastarnae in Macedonia. Not sure if this counts because unlike the previous mention, a consul was not the highest roman office at the time. > > Beyond that, the only cases I have found were probably mythical. > > I couldn’t locate a single case of a national leader dying mysteriously in another country - or one of a world leader acting directly to kill another. > > There are several cases where an agent, acting on direct orders of a ruler, commits the act, but none where the ruler held the weapon. I beat you to it. The first time, in almost 8 years as a member, that I was able to answer first (too many nerds around). I have another example Flavius Aetius suposedly mortally wounded his rival Count Boniface in single combat. I can’t find a cite though. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/17 "2009-09-24T19:00:03Z")
Thanks for the answers. Anyone got an answer for the second part though? Just how would we prevent a leader at some conference from sneaking in a gun or a knife? Are they really ushered through security unbothered? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/18 "2009-09-24T19:53:43Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The British targeted only one top Nazi leader for assassination during the war, the “Butcher of Prague,” Reinhard Heydrich, who was killed by two British-trained Czech partisans in 1942: [Reinhard Heydrich - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Heydrich). I’ve read that the War Cabinet considered the assassination of Hitler but ruled it out because he was actually a hindrance to the German war effort, and might have been replaced by a better strategist. “Better the devil you know…” That’s not quite accurate. Heydrich was killed by local partisans, not British soldiers (or assassins). All the British did was provide training & supplies to them. They did that to a lot of local resistance groups, including specific supplies for bombs & other assassination attempts. One major example would be the July 20, 1944 attempt by von Staffenberg to kill Hitler with a bomb – the explosives he used were supplied by British agents (von Staffenberg just used them incompetently). (Apparently by that time the British did think killing Hitler would be useful. Probably they felt his bad military decisions had already fatally damaged the German military position, and that with him gone, they could have negotiated an earlier surrender.) But the feeling that it wasn’t ‘cricket’ to specifically attempt to kill enemy leaders was fairly common among military & political leaders. (Possibly because they didn’t want _themselves_ to be targets for the same thing.) The US had decoded Japanese info that told them when Japanese military strategist Admiral Yamamoto would be flying in a vulnerable area, where they could send American fighter planes specifically to shoot down his plane. There was some controversy about whether this was proper; eventually they decided that they would give him the same amount of warning that he had given in the sneak attack on Pearl Harbor – none. Even in the 1960’s, such assassination attempts were controversial. The US tried several times to assassinate Fidel Castro, but these were done secretly via the CIA, and I think they are still denied officially. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/19 "2009-09-25T23:12:38Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > That’s not quite accurate. Heydrich was killed by local partisans, not British soldiers (or assassins). All the British did was provide training & supplies to them… “All”? Not quite. From the Wiki article: _In London, the Czechoslovak government in exile (Prozatímní státní zřízení) was plotting to assassinate Heydrich. Two men specially trained by the British SOE or Special Operations Executive, Jan Kubiš and Jozef Gabčík, were chosen for the operation. After receiving training from the British, they returned by parachute in December, dropped from a Halifax of 138 Squadron RAF._ ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244/20 "2009-09-26T01:47:31Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Was Goliath a national leader? How does this relate to the thread? David was just a dude and Goliath was just the top, huge solider for his side. 😕 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-one-countrys-leader-ever-killed-another/511244.md?page=2)