# Has Political Correctness Gone Mad?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 23, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590 "2017-02-23T20:27:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/21 "2017-02-23T21:56:49Z")
Hmm, so what about the notion that white people need to shut up and listen? I had thought this was a fringe notion, but here’s the Executive Director of the Idaho Democratic Party and candidate for DNC Chair taking this position pretty forcefully.
Video and transcript [here](http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/politics-columns-blogs/politics-blog/article128419609.html).
She claims she was taken out of context, and it’s possible that some people somewhere have taken her out of context. But you can see the entire speech here without anyone else providing context.
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### Author:  [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/22 "2017-02-23T22:50:49Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> Hmm, so what about the notion that white people need to shut up and listen? I had thought this was a fringe notion, but here’s the Executive Director of the Idaho Democratic Party and candidate for DNC Chair taking this position pretty forcefully.
>
> Video and transcript [here](http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/politics-government/politics-columns-blogs/politics-blog/article128419609.html).
>
> She claims she was taken out of context, and it’s possible that some people somewhere have taken her out of context. But you can see the entire speech here without anyone else providing context.
Does Louis Gomert represent every republican and conservative? Can we use his insanity to tar everyone on that side as being exactly the same as him?
If not, then why do you think it works the other way?
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### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/23 "2017-02-23T22:56:02Z")
I’m not familiar with Louis Gomert, but in any event I’m not trying to claim that Ms. Brown represents all Democrats. I’m sorry if you got that impression, though I don’t know how you might have taken that from my words. (It’s pretty clear that it doesn’t represent all Democrats, because she herself says that some of the white people she wants to shut up are Democrats themselves, so those people presumably disagree with her :))
My point was that this notion is gaining mainstream acceptability when it’s at the point where it’s being put forth by a head of a Democratic state party and DNC chair candidate.
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### Author:  [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/24 "2017-02-23T22:58:04Z")
Has anyone here ever experienced an actual interaction where this kind of “political correctness” has caused them any problem? A few stupid things here and there (even if accurately reported) don’t indicate to me that there’s a systematic problem that needs to be addressed.
I know I continue to feel free to do and say pretty much whatever I want. I have learned over the decades (in part through the PC movement) that certain positions and certain language can be offensive to others and I’ve tried to modify my behavior when it makes sense to do so. My consciousness has been raised, and that’s a good thing.
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### Author:  [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/25 "2017-02-23T23:09:36Z")
Yes. Political correctness has jumped the shark.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/26 "2017-02-23T23:16:11Z")
> [@Procrustus](#):
>
> Has anyone here ever experienced an actual interaction where this kind of “political correctness” has caused them any problem? A few stupid things here and there (even if accurately reported) don’t indicate to me that there’s a systematic problem that needs to be addressed.
>
> I know I continue to feel free to do and say pretty much whatever I want. I have learned over the decades (in part through the PC movement) that certain positions and certain language can be offensive to others and I’ve tried to modify my behavior when it makes sense to do so. My consciousness has been raised, and that’s a good thing.
I started [a thread a few years ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=719328) about any actual real damage that false accusations of racism have done to any person’s life or career – I think there was a single good example from the 90s, and the Shirley Sherrod in the 00s, and a few weak ones otherwise. In short, any damage from supposed “PC gone amuck”, IMO, is absolutely minuscule compared to the damage that actual bigotry, racism, and the like does.
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### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/27 "2017-02-23T23:40:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> My point was that this notion is gaining mainstream acceptability when it’s at the point where it’s being put forth by a head of a Democratic state party and DNC chair candidate.
…can you explain exactly what it is you think has been gaining “mainstream acceptability?” Do you think that Sally Boynton Brown literally wants every white man everywhere to “shut up and listen” now and forever? Or was she trying to make a rhetorical point? Do you think she was right or wrong on the point she was trying to make?
I personally thought it was a good: passionate speech. I agree with what she said: and if she wants to make it her mission to…
> [@](#):
>
> “shut other white people down when they want to say, “Oh, no, I’m not prejudiced. I’m a Democrat. I’m accepting.” My job is to make sure that they get that they have privilege and until we shut our mouths and we listen to those people who don’t and we lift our people up so that we all have equity in this country, so that we’re all fighting alongside each other, so that we are all on the same page and we clearly get where we’re going, we’re not going to break through this”
…then I’m okay with that.
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/28 "2017-02-23T23:44:26Z")
Yes, it’s just awful how bigots aren’t allowed to be bigots without being called on it anymore. What happened to the good old days when you could call a faggot a faggot without someone looking at you like you just kissed your sister with tongue?
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### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/29 "2017-02-23T23:48:26Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#):
>
> Do you think that Sally Boynton Brown literally wants every white man everywhere to “shut up and listen” now and forever? Or was she trying to make a rhetorical point? Do you think she was right or wrong on the point she was trying to make?
What she wants is for minorities’ perspectives on race-related issues to be definitive and accepted by all others. (And of course, what constitutes “race-related issues” is itself a steadily growing category.)
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/30 "2017-02-23T23:55:23Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> Hmm, so what about the notion that white people need to shut up and listen? I had thought this was a fringe notion, but here’s the Executive Director of the Idaho Democratic Party and candidate for DNC Chair taking this position pretty forcefully.
What on earth is “fringe” or in any way oppressive about the notion that when it comes to race issues, white people have an ethical responsibility to let other voices be heard?
Here’s what Boynton Brown actually said about her views on her responsibility as an advocate for racial equality:
> [@](#):
>
> My job is to listen and be a voice and my job is to shut other white people down when they want to interrupt. My job is to shut other white people down when they want to say, “Oh, no, I’m not prejudiced. I’m a Democrat. I’m accepting.” My job is to make sure that they get that they have privilege and until we shut our mouths and we listen to those people who don’t and we lift our people up so that we all have equity in this country, so that we’re all fighting alongside each other, so that we are all on the same page and we clearly get where we’re going, we’re not going to break through this.
In other words, Boynton Brown is saying that white people shouldn’t hog the microphone in discussing racial matters, and shouldn’t assume that they’re unaffected by systemic prejudice just because they hold Democratic and/or liberal views.
What kind of fragile white-privileged snowflake do you have to be to feel in any way threatened or disrespected by that common-sense observation? How in the world does that qualify as any kind of “political correctness run mad”?
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### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [February 23, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/31 "2017-02-23T23:59:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> What she wants is for minorities’ perspectives on race-related issues to be definitive and accepted by all others.
…can you point out exactly where she said that?
> [@](#):
>
> (And of course, what constitutes “race-related issues” is itself a steadily growing category.)
A steadily growing category of what?
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### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/32 "2017-02-24T00:05:18Z")
Interpreting “shut other white people down” and “until we shut our mouths and we listen” as “shouldn’t hog the microphone” is _extremely_ charitable.
Especially as she later goes on to say “I am talking to people of color because you have the answers, you can tell me as a leader what I need to do …” [she goes on to say “… and that’s exactly what I’m going to do” which sounds even worse, but it’s unclear whether this is referring to what people of color have told her to do or "continu[ing] to have those conversations …]
So basically I certainly agree that objecting to White people hogging the microphone is not political correctness, but I don’t agree that that’s what’s being said (especially as I don’t agree that White people are hogging the microphone to begin with).
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#):
>
> A steadily growing category of what?
More and more things are being viewed through racial lenses and as racial issues.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/33 "2017-02-24T00:14:13Z")
> [@davida03801](#):
>
> Interesting the last two threads I just open up.
>
> The 1st was this one **“Has Political Correctness Gone Mad?”**
>
> The 2nd was two threads down **“Should women be given special treatment in order to become Rangers?”**
>
> My belief is that the 2nd answers yes to the 1st.
Only in the sense that the second thread was also started by a conservative who was upset by a nominal attempt at gender equity. In that sense, yes, the political correctness of the right continues to run amok.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2017, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/34 "2017-02-24T00:18:30Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> Interpreting “shut other white people down” and “until we shut our mouths and we listen” as “shouldn’t hog the microphone” is _extremely_ charitable.
Not at all. Because what she said is that part of her job as a Democratic Party leader is to shut other white people down _when they want to interrupt_, and _when they take it for granted that they’re not racially prejudiced just because they’re Democrats_.
Getting whites not to hog the microphone within Democratic Party discussions of racial issues is **exactly** what that’s about.
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### Author:  [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/35 "2017-02-24T00:19:52Z")
> [@Jefferson](#):
>
> **“Has Political Correctness Gone Mad?”**
No more than Trump’s hair has gone mad.
Q: Has trump’s Hair Gone Mad?
My Vote: _ **It’s a Mad Mad Mad Mad Swirl…!** _
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2017, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/36 "2017-02-24T01:03:45Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#):
>
> No more than Trump’s hair has gone mad.
>
> Q: Has trump’s Hair Gone Mad?
> My Vote: _ **It’s a Mad Mad Mad Mad Swirl…!** _
Seconded,
> **[MAD Magazine | Welcome to MAD](https://www.dc.com/mad)**
>
> Welcome to MAD Magazine!
And yes, that MAD cover shows that Political Correctness Has Gone Mad… 😃
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### Author:  [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/37 "2017-02-24T02:30:06Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> Interpreting “shut other white people down” and “until we shut our mouths and we listen” as “shouldn’t hog the microphone” is _extremely_ charitable.
…ya know that thing about context? You are deliberately removing the context when you quote-mine her quotes. According to what you said earlier: "She claims she was taken out of context, and it’s possible that some people somewhere have taken her out of context. "
Yes: some other people have taken her out of context. And the “some other people” is you. For the correct context, see Kimstu’s post.
> [@](#):
>
> Especially as she later goes on to say “I am talking to people of color because you have the answers, you can tell me as a leader what I need to do …” [she goes on to say “… and that’s exactly what I’m going to do” which sounds even worse, but it’s unclear whether this is referring to what people of color have told her to do or "continu[ing] to have those conversations …]
And you are doing it again. Here is the full context of that quote:
“We need to make sure that our actions and our words and our values all match and around the issue of race we are so far out of alignment, I don’t even know the way back, but I am listening and I am asking and I am talking to people. I am talking to people of color because you have the answers, you can tell me as a leader what I need to do and that’s exactly what I’m going to do, is continue to have those conversations and continue to talk to people and make sure that every single system in our party is designed to give power back to the people. All people, but especially those people who have been disenfranchised in our country since our country started.”
What exactly are you finding unclear? She isn’t saying what you think she is saying.
> [@](#):
>
> So basically I certainly agree that objecting to White people hogging the microphone is not political correctness, but I don’t agree that that’s what’s being said
Why not? Isn’t that what she actually said?
> [@](#):
>
> (especially as I don’t agree that White people are hogging the microphone to begin with).
She obviously sees things through a very different lens to you.
> [@](#):
>
> More and more things are being viewed through racial lenses and as racial issues.
Watch this video. Its only two minutes long, its a snippet from Ava DuVernay’s brilliant documentary “The 13th.”
[https://twitter.com/ava/status/833783214330089474](https://twitter.com/ava/status/833783214330089474)
When Trump says “They’d be carried out on a stretcher folks” thousands of people cheered those words. You can hear them. But those words have very different meaning to thousands of other people. They are words they have heard before. They see through a racial lens. They don’t have a choice. This is reality. I’m not seeing the problem.
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### Author:  [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2017, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/38 "2017-02-24T03:19:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> Not at all. Because what she said is that part of her job as a Democratic Party leader is to shut other white people down _when they want to interrupt_, and _when they take it for granted that they’re not racially prejudiced just because they’re Democrats_.
>
> Getting whites not to hog the microphone within Democratic Party discussions of racial issues is **exactly** what that’s about.
Starting from the assumption that a white person maybe bigoted or racist as a justification to silence that person is perverse and a sure way to create conflict.
I don’t see how treating people according to negative stereotypes of their “race” is anything but racism.
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### Author:  [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/39 "2017-02-24T03:39:41Z")
> [@Jefferson](#):
>
> The former chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, Trevor Phillips certainly thinks so.
**[Trevor Phillips?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Philips)** Now, _there’s_ a name associated with political correctness! 😃
**Trevor:** Hey, Franklin, how come you and Lamar can call each other the N-word all the time, but I can’t, huh? That’s political correctness!
**Franklin:** Yeah, whatever, dog.
**Michael:** I hear North Yankton’s making it legal to run over protestors now.
**Trevor:** Since when have _we_ ever needed a law to run someone over, Mikey?
---
### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [February 24, 2017, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-political-correctness-gone-mad/780590/40 "2017-02-24T04:12:49Z")
> [@Ale](#):
>
> Starting from the assumption that a white person maybe bigoted or racist as a justification to silence that person is perverse and a sure way to create conflict.
You have the interpretation exactly backwards. The point is that a white person shouldn’t start from the assumption that they’re automatically **not** bigoted or racist just because they endorse Democratic/liberal ideas about racial equality.
I really don’t get why there’s so much resistance to the idea that it’s important for white people to listen to non-white people when it comes to discussing issues of race in the US. I would have thought it was obvious that what white people have to say about race (or anything else) already gets a disproportionate amount of attention, since white people have disproportionate amounts of wealth, power, media presence, and academic/literary influence. How are we going to get a more balanced perspective if we don’t put some effort into shutting up and listening to non-white voices?
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