# Has Putin mentally deteriorated? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 27, 2022, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179 "2022-02-27T05:01:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/141 "2022-03-03T15:44:43Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > an existential threat to Russia, Reality is an existential threat to Russia. The EU, led by example if nothing else by Germany, has leapfrogged away from fossil fuels. The remaining issue is adequate storage and transmission as they further move to renewable generation of electricity as the mainstay. The next decade is going to bring less and less need for the only thing Russia really sells. Their death rate exceeds its birth rate with a “saving grace” that life expectancy is low so they don’t have to support too many people in old age. And droughts from climate change are impacting another economic driver: wheat exports. Decreased quality of life there will long term result in a brain drain as well. Russia has been increasingly becoming, worst of all, irrelevant. That perhaps motivates Putin more than anything else. He is now relevant. Relevant like someone who goes in to shoot up an elementary school is, but he is the subject of discussion across the world. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/142 "2022-03-03T17:40:04Z")
‘Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean the whole world isn’t out to get you.’ 😄 ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/143 "2022-03-04T08:51:30Z")
Interesting fact, via The Daily Beast. Putin’s cabinet didn’t know about the invasion beforehand. Some wanted to resign over the invasion, and were threatened with being sent to prison camp if they did. > **[Terrifying Putin Phone Call Warns ‘Worst Is Yet to Come’](https://www.thedailybeast.com/terrifying-putin-phone-call-warns-worst-is-yet-to-come)** > > French President Emmanuel Macron says the Russian president told him he will fight “until the end” as those close to him start to panic. > The _Times of London_ reported that Putin was so secretive about his plans for invading Ukraine that not even his cabinet knew what he was cooking up after being told he only planned to recognize the two separatist areas. > > “This is fucked up. They are out of their fucking minds!” someone in the government told the Agentstvo news outlet. And those officials who threatened to resign over the invasion were met with a worse threat: treason charges punishable by hard labor. “Resignation will lead only to a prison camp,” one official reportedly said. If this is how some of the senior people close to Putin feel, and this is how they are being treated, he surely can’t last long. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/144 "2022-03-04T11:20:43Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The _Times of London_ reported that Putin was so secretive about his plans for invading Ukraine that not even his cabinet knew what he was cooking up after being told he only planned to recognize the two separatist areas. this would explain (if true, of course) how/why the Zelensky assessination plans leaked out of Moscow to be honest, reading that, I got a bit of a Trump-flashback … where half of his underllings job was to make sure whatever he wanted to do would not happen (_the adults in the room_) ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/145 "2022-03-04T12:56:21Z")
Would conducting Russian attacks so close to the biggest nuclear power plant in Europe that fires and debris are actually on the reactor site qualify as being the act of a maniac? Just wondering. [Russia Condemned for “Reckless” Nuclear Plant Attack](https://www.cnn.com/) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/146 "2022-03-04T13:02:10Z")
I would say yes. It does qualify. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/147 "2022-03-04T15:40:19Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Would conducting Russian attacks so close to the biggest nuclear power plant in Europe that fires and debris are actually on the reactor site qualify as being the act of a maniac? Just wondering. I won’t dispute that Putin is a maniac, but what happened at that power plant was well below his pay grade. Some Russian unit commander got sloppy. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/148 "2022-03-04T15:52:31Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Their death rate exceeds its birth rate with a “saving grace” that life expectancy is low so they don’t have to support too many people in old age. The current life expectancy for a male in Russia is 68, which is one year less than Putin’s current age. I’m sure this fact is not lost on him and may indeed be part of why this is happening now. I think in the last couple years we’ve seen the mental state of a lot of people decline and world leaders would not be immune to that either, particularly with all the pressures associated with the position. Autocrats are more isolated as a rule; those around them tend to be, um, judicious about what they say so I’d think it’d be far easier for someone like that to end up with a distorted view of the state of things around them. Putin has had plenty of time to stew, obsess and ruminate about Ukraine with essentially no one around to even attempt persuade him into a healthier point of view. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/149 "2022-03-04T16:03:43Z")
It seems unlikely this was a sloppy unit commander action. The plant provides 20% of Ukraine’s electricity. Being in control of electricity is part of laying siege upon the people of the nation. They simply felt that the benefit of gaining control of the plant was worth the risk of causing some degree of nuclear accident. That is not a low level decision. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/150 "2022-03-04T16:06:38Z")
In addition to being out of touch with the facts and with the 21st century (he doesn’t even have a cell phone, for goodness sake!), Putin has a grandiose vision of Russia’s history and place in the world. His ultimate aim seems to be to re-establish the Tsarist Russian Empire. He even blames Lenin for allowing too much freedom to the regions of the USSR, which eventually resulted in breakaway states like Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/151 "2022-03-04T16:07:04Z")
I meant firing that close to the reactors. The power grid is an obvious target and both sides knew the Russians would eventually need to capture that plant. How they went about doing it was a tactical decision. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/152 "2022-03-04T16:09:56Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > How they went about doing it was a tactical decision. I agree. Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. The Russian officers on the ground are not necessarily the most competent, nor are the artillery crews. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/153 "2022-03-04T16:26:17Z")
Oh, I don’t think anyone meant to have the plant catch fire. But the decision to attack it came with knowledge that blowing things up near it came with risks of a bomb hitting the plant itself and potentially causing a nuclear incident of some level. That was a calculated risk that those high in the command chain decided was appropriate to take. Maybe they placed more stock on the precision capabilities of their forces than was justified, maybe they felt the design of the plant was such that an event triggered would be small enough to risk, after all any fall out and contaminated water would mostly stay in Ukraine … ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/154 "2022-03-04T16:30:01Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I won’t dispute that Putin is a maniac, but what happened at that power plant was well below his pay grade. Some Russian unit commander got sloppy. Maybe they’ll liquidate him. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/155 "2022-03-04T16:36:33Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Maybe they’ll liquidate him. I doubt many will get the reference, but maybe Putin’s mama will liquefy him a la [Superfly](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itW12lj7TfY&t=58s). (this was the only clip of the scene I could find…for those of you who don’t speak Spanish, this gangster’s mom is giving him a real linguistic beat down before popping him into a box to liquefy him. When I saw the post, it’s the first thing I thought of…and wouldn’t it be great to see Putin in that position with his mom giving him the smackdown before putting him in a box??). ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/156 "2022-03-04T16:36:34Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Russian and former Soviet officials far beyond his circle, seem to genuinely believe that during the talks over German reunification in 1990, the USSR came to an explicit and binding deal with the U.S. and NATO. The deal was supposedly that in return for the withdrawal of Soviet forces from Germany and Soviet acquiescence to German reunification and NATO expansion into the former East Germany, NATO would never expand further eastward, Does Putin, or Russia, have any legitimate claims on anything negotiated with the Soviet Union? Seems to me that when a country disbands, all its agreements become null and void. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/157 "2022-03-04T16:40:26Z")
My God, she literally did liquify him! Eeeewwww! LOL ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/158 "2022-03-04T16:41:36Z")
> [@Roger\_That](#): > > Does Putin, or Russia, have any legitimate claims on anything negotiated with the Soviet Union? Seems to me that when a country disbands, all its agreements become null and void. In international law, there is the concept of succession states: that a new government of a country is the successor to the previous government, and therefore inherits the international obligations and privileges of the predeccessor. It is not always followed, as the USSR in 1918, for example, disavowed any succession to Tsarist Russia. In the case of the USSR break-up, the new state of Russia asserted that it is the successor state to the USSR, particularly with respect to the USSR’s seat on the security council fo the UN. That statement of succession was supported by most of the other former Soviet republics, and was accepted by the international community. > **[Succession of states | Soviet Union](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_of_states#Soviet_Union)** > > International convention since the end of the Cold War has come to distinguish two distinct circumstances where such privileges are sought by such a successor state, in only the first of which may such successor states assume the name or privileged international position of their predecessor. The first set of circumstances arose at the dissolution of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) in 1991. One of the constituent republics of the USSR, the Russian Federation has claimed to be "the ... ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/159 "2022-03-04T16:43:04Z")
Everybody is looking for the pivot where Putin “takes the gloves off”, and jumping at every instance of Russian recklessness. That pivot is probably inevitable, but what happened at the nuclear power plant wasn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179/160 "2022-03-04T17:07:30Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Oh, I don’t think anyone meant to have the plant catch fire. But the decision to attack it came with knowledge that blowing things up near it came with risks of a bomb hitting the plant itself and potentially causing a nuclear incident of some level. That was a calculated risk that those high in the command chain decided was appropriate to take. Maybe they placed more stock on the precision capabilities of their forces than was justified, maybe they felt the design of the plant was such that an event triggered would be small enough to risk, after all any fall out and contaminated water would mostly stay in Ukraine … The plant didn’t catch fire. An outbuilding used for training caught fire. It’s now out. From the reporting I’ve seen, it doesn’t appear that the reactor itself or any critical infrastructure sustained any significant damage. It may still have been an unjustifiable risk, but in this specific instance, any stock Putin or other Russian higher-ups placed on the precision capabilities of their forces seems to have actually been justified. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-putin-mentally-deteriorated/960179.md?page=9)