# Has Rachel Carson or DDT killed more people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2001, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-rachel-carson-or-ddt-killed-more-people/71893 "2001-07-10T00:51:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-rachel-carson-or-ddt-killed-more-people/71893/41 "2001-07-21T18:51:21Z")
> [@](#): > > And why limit it to birds? What about those poor pests we might drive to extinction with our pesticides? Those poor little anafales mosquitoes deserve our protection too, right? And the smallpox virus. Let’s get that little fucker back in circulation. It’s very valuable. > [@](#): > > am I morally obligated to prevent the natural deaths of umpteen million people. Perhaps not. But if I am saving the lives of umpteen billion people, are you obliged to not prevent me from doing so? > [@](#): > > One answer is that more human beings have _obviously_ died from malaria than have _obviously_ died from DDT. This is true. The "obviously"s are unnecessary. Hundreds of millions of people since the beginning of recorded history have died from malaria. DDT cannot even aproach a couple orders of magnitude of that figure. Heck, I don’t even think _one_ person has died from DDT. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-rachel-carson-or-ddt-killed-more-people/71893/42 "2001-07-22T14:11:57Z")
No comment… However, **foolsguinea** : you might want to go [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=78961). You’re currently being PITified… Just a head’s up… ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-rachel-carson-or-ddt-killed-more-people/71893/43 "2001-07-22T19:05:00Z")
I was going to link that. :mad::wally:p:D ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-rachel-carson-or-ddt-killed-more-people/71893/44 "2001-11-27T03:21:36Z")
Sorry to dredge this up again, but a relevant [BBC article](http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/africa/newsid_1677000/1677073.stm) was just released. If nothing else, it’s got a scary pic of a mosquito staring at you. Here’s part of it. > [@](#): > > Now, however, some African governments judge that the ecological risks posed by DDT do not compare with the danger of malaria getting a deadlier grip. > > South Africa is taking the lead, after seeing deaths from the disease rise sharply along its swampy northern coast… > > Since it was reintroduced two years ago malaria cases there have plummeted. The malaria ward presently has a calm, almost lonely air, with only the odd patient occupying the ranks of iron beds. > > Travel just over the South African border into Mozambique and malaria remains a desperate problem. > > It is the country’s biggest killer of children, and there is no reason to expect that situation to change. ---
**Author:** ![Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/db5fbb/32.png) [@Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-rachel-carson-or-ddt-killed-more-people/71893/45 "2001-11-27T03:42:26Z")
As usual, my opinion on this matter is pretty much dead center. DDT saves tens of millions of lives **in developing countries or during war time**. The use of DDT **under these situations** can, quite simply, not be argued against. It’s obscene overuse on the farms of peace time first world nations was and is inappropriate. There, a position we can all agree on. Great article by my personal hero (;)) on this topic. I believe it is the “New Yorker” article mentioned above: [http://gladwell.com/2001/2001\_07\_02\_a\_ddt.htm](http://gladwell.com/2001/2001_07_02_a_ddt.htm) ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-rachel-carson-or-ddt-killed-more-people/71893/46 "2001-11-27T20:59:21Z")
Pesticides, like everything else in an insect’s environment, provide evolutionary pressure, and will inevitably and inarguably lead to new and improved insects. According to my memory of a passage in _The Beak of the Finch,_ this has been documented to have already happened. We are, if I remember correctly, losing a greater percentage of crops to insects now than we were before the widespread use of pesticides, because we’ve forced the pests to evolve beyond the effects of the pesticides. Clearly the situation is more complex than the OP appears to understand. Rachel Carson did not create Malaria, so Rachel Carson is not responsible for _any_ deaths. If she shed some light on the downside of one method of fighting Malaria, then she has in effect catalyzed a sort of evolutionary pressure on the agriculture/pesticide . . . system (for lack of a better word). This can only be a good thing all around. Further, the need to preserve the species of birds that were threatened by DDT was not simply an aesthetic consideration; nor is it important only to those of us bird geeks who can tell the difference between a kestrel and a sparrow hawk\*. Most of the birds (AFAIK, all of the birds) that were affected by DDT were birds of prey. Imagine the state of worldwide pestilence and disease and agricultural disaster we’d be in if there were nothing higher on the food chain that rats and mice. [sup]\*Trick question.[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-rachel-carson-or-ddt-killed-more-people/71893/47 "2001-11-27T21:15:14Z")
Kinda like the fanatics during the Bubonic plague killing all the cats-assuming they were witches. Was that true, btw? ---
**Author:** ![Phobos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Phobos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phobos)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2001, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-rachel-carson-or-ddt-killed-more-people/71893/48 "2001-11-27T22:05:37Z")
No, the cats were not really witches. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-rachel-carson-or-ddt-killed-more-people/71893.md?page=2)