# Has Shakespeare ever been translated into modern English? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 22, 2005, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443 "2005-10-22T18:22:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/21 "2005-10-23T08:07:37Z")
When I was studying Macbeth, I have a study guide which has the original text on one page, while a more ‘updated, modern’ translation on the other. It is very helpful in helping to understand what’s going on. Also, the ‘updated translation’ explains the rather cryptic stage directions (such as changing “aside” to “speaking to himself”) and also includes stage directions missing from the original text (for example, the text added a small note that sound of women crying could be heard when Lady Macbeth jumped off the wall). ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/22 "2005-10-23T08:37:33Z")
In my senior year of high school, one of my classmates translated a huge chunk of _King Lear_ into the hip-hop vernacular contemporary of the time (mid-1980s). At the time, I thought it was mind-blowingly clever. ---
**Author:** ![pocelene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/0ea827/32.png) [@pocelene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pocelene)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/23 "2005-10-23T14:32:55Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Does West Side Story count? 😉 No. That one has no relation to Shakespeare whatever. Doesn’t even have feuding families or mutual suicides. > [@carterba](#): > > The plays have been performed using contemporary language. Some movies have been made. Yes, yes. That’s what I’m looking for. I don’t suppose you’d be able to tell me enough to locate them (titles, names actors or year of issue)? But I think you may have been fooled by the same promotional catch phrases as jrfranch. Great for selling tickets, but the movies are not about the same things at all. Something billed as “a modern Hamlet” deals with mobs and hit men, etc. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/24 "2005-10-23T14:45:08Z")
> [@carterba](#): > > Shakespeare is just like _The Simpsons_. Very few people will catch all the references in any episode. I suppose you could “footnote” episodes, putting in subtitles that explain each reference and define the big words, but why? You can enjoy it without getting everything. Umm… already done for about [twelve and a half seasons](http://www.snpp.com/episodes.html)😃 And yes, not sure if anyone else does, but I often watch a simpsons episode with the capsule right in front of me, trying to keep up with the 'did you notice’s, the cultural references, and the discussion topics. Really does make it more fun, especially if you’ve already seen the episode a few times. We now return you to your regularly scheduled shakespeare discussion thread.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/25 "2005-10-23T14:50:01Z")
> [@pocelene](#): > > No. That one has no relation to Shakespeare whatever. Doesn’t even have feuding families or mutual suicides. :dubious: Am I being whooshed? ---
**Author:** ![Enterprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/76d3ee/32.png) [@Enterprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enterprise)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/26 "2005-10-23T14:56:48Z")
> [@ExtraKun](#): > > When I was studying Macbeth, I have a study guide which has the original text on one page, while a more ‘updated, modern’ translation on the other. It is very helpful in helping to understand what’s going on. Also, the ‘updated translation’ explains the rather cryptic stage directions (such as changing “aside” to “speaking to himself”) and also includes stage directions missing from the original text (for example, the text added a small note that sound of women crying could be heard when Lady Macbeth jumped off the wall). Added stage directions! ADDED STAGE DIRECTIONS! The horror! The horror! [I can supply a subtitle for this literary allusion]. Seriously…If Shakespeare had really, seriously, and necessarily demanded that there is a woman crying in the background when Lady MacBeth dies, he would have written so. That stage direction is not _missing_ anymore than this is: DUNCAN: There’s no art To find the mind’s construction in the face: He was a gentleman on whom I built An absolute trust. ENTER MACBETH [TO THE SOUND OF CANNED LAUGHTER and WHOOING a la Married with Children] ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/27 "2005-10-23T15:12:48Z")
Oh, I forgot to mention in my earlier post: Shakespreare IS translated into modern English. The folio (original version) of The Merchant of Venice (Act I, Scene 3, lines 101-108) looks like this: Shy. Signior Anthonio, many a time and oft In the Ryalto you haue rated me About my monies and my vsances: Still haue I borne it with a patient shrug, (For suffrance is the badge of all our Tribe.) You call me misbeleeuer, cut-throate dog, And spet vpon my Iewish gaberdine, And all for vse of that which is mine owne. Whereas one of the more well-respected modern editions of the same passage is: Shy. Signior Antonio, many a time and oft In the Rialto you have rated me About my moneys and my usances: Still have I borne it with a patient shrug, (For suff’rance is the badge of all our tribe) You call me misbeliever, cut-throat dog, And spet upon my Jewish gaberdine, And all for use of that which is mine own. The second version looks much cleaner, and is much easier for a modern-day actor to work with (it’s much easier to run lines when you aren’t tripping over all those crazy u’s and v’s). When performed (or simply read aloud), the two versions sound identical. Note the change of “suffrance” to “suff’rance” instead of “sufferance”; this indicates to the actor that the word is to be pronounced with two syllables rather than three (which is important when the character is speaking in verse). This is a little snag to a reader, but as I said before, it’s a script, not a novel. Of course, many actors (especially those with a lot of experience with Shakespeare) prefer to work with the folio editions because they’re truer to the words penned by the Bard himself. It’s actually considered a good idea to consult several different editions of a play one is working on, and draw upon the different perspectives for the production at hand. Honestly, I suspect that the reason there’s so much badly done Shakespeare out there is that it takes much additional work to prepare a Shakespeare role, and many actors are too lazy to go the extra mile (or simply aren’t given enough time to do so). ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/28 "2005-10-23T15:12:56Z")
> [@Enterprise](#): > > Added stage directions! ADDED STAGE DIRECTIONS! The horror! The horror! [I can supply a subtitle for this literary allusion]. **Flees thread, pursued by bear** Now, if you want to see some well filmed modern Shakespeare, why not ask the fine folks at [Troma studios](http://www.troma.com/movies/tromeoandjuliet/)? > [@](#): > > All the body-piercing, kinky sex, and car crashes that Shakespeare wanted but never had! Join Tromeo (Will Keenan), Juliet (Jane Jensen), and Lemmy of Motorhead as they travel through Manhattan’s underground in search of climactic love, violence, and the American Way. I hear that rap music is popular with today’s younger crowd, so it would seem inevitable that there would be [some leakage](http://www.babasword.com/writing/rapcantales.html) > [@](#): > > **The Miller’s Tale** > Listen to this tune, it’s about a rich man > Licking a silver spoon, who lived in a mansion > And rented a room to this young scholar kid, > Who’d been to the two most respected colleges > For logic and philosophy; he got scholarships > But he still lived in poverty due to the preposterous > Cost of living, without a dollar he lived as an Astrologist > And followed his dreams, his name was Nicholas > And when it came to women his game was limitless. > The ladies he visited became libidinous > When he played his instruments; he’d just lick his lips > And sing a melody as sweet as licorice. ---
**Author:** ![pocelene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/0ea827/32.png) [@pocelene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pocelene)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/29 "2005-10-23T19:20:11Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > :dubious: > > Am I being whooshed? If you think that they are identical, except for the updating of the language, I’d guess you’ve never seen either one. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/30 "2005-10-23T21:13:24Z")
> [@pocelene](#): > > If you think that they are identical, except for the updating of the language, I’d guess you’ve never seen either one. There’s a difference between being non-identical and having “no relation to Shakespeare whatever.” Even the “Bob & Doug” movie _Strange Brew_ can claim a strong _connection_ to Shakespeare. Of course, neither _Strange Brew_ or _West Side Story_ can be considered reasonably _equivalent_ to the plays from which they take their inspiration – that rather goes without saying. That’s probably why **jrfranchi** included a winkie when he suggested _WST_. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/31 "2005-10-23T21:19:46Z")
> [@pocelene](#): > > If you think that they are identical, except for the updating of the language, I’d guess you’ve never seen either one. What **Larry Mudd** said. “Not identical” does not equal “no relation whatsoever”. Laurents was clearly inspired by _Romeo and Juliet_. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/32 "2005-10-23T21:28:41Z")
> [@robardin](#): > > Only for satirical reasons. The beauty of Shakespeare isn’t in the plot, but in the words he uses. \*Hipsters, flipsters, and finger-poppin’ daddies, Knock me your lobes, I come to lay Ceasar out, Not to hip you to him. The bad jazz that a cat blows Wails long after he’s cut out. The groovy is often stashed with their frames, So don’t put Caesar down. \* Not what I’d call satirical, exactly. But the beauty of what Lord Buckley did was in the words he used, too. ---
**Author:** ![pocelene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/0ea827/32.png) [@pocelene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pocelene)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/33 "2005-10-23T21:47:03Z")
**Rico:** A question for you re: > [@Rico](#): > > \ > Whether 'tis nobler to keep this thread in GQ or move it to Café Society… > Ah, heck with it. > 😃 > \ > [@Rico](#): > > \ > > I’m positive you meant to post this in Café Society. > Let me go back in time and move it for you. > There, much better. > > \ I know you think this is hilarious, to divert “stupid” questions to an alternate forum, but if you examine the vapid responses I’ve received, you’ll understand why I do not feel you have done me any favors. Did you really mean to insult me, as many of the above people have done? Are you of that club that says a person who asks my OP question is a cretin who failed high school freshman English and is now looking for a Cliff’s Notes video to help cram for the make-up test? And that, as such, I deserve a round pummeling for asking questions with obvious answers. And instead of simple sober factual answers I should be happy with dismissive negative opinions and jokes at my expense. Allow me to disabuse you of that notion. I’m a Thespian who has\* read\* and _rehearsed_ and\* played\* parts in \*virtually all \*of Shakespeare’s plays over the last few decades. Including the less produced ones like Cymbeline and Pericles, Prince of Tyre. So unlike the sneers recorded above about my not understanding the words or beauty of Shakespeare, my “fault” is much simpler: I am not a scholar of Shakespearian derivative works. The scripts I see are selected by directors, and they seldom contain mentions of related versions, except what variations exist between the various octavos and folios. So, the place I intended this question to be answered was GQ, which your instructions say is the factual forum. The one to use when Cecil does not answer a question, but still when some authoritative answer is wished for. And if posters can be encouraged to take a question at face value and be serious for once … … then the only legitimate answers to the OP would be of the form: 1. "Yes, there was a version of Lear written two centuries ago by those selfsame Lambs, who even then thought a more modern vocabulary would be usable in some contexts. However, it was in a separate book which is now out of print. 2. “No, this has never been tried for any of his plays, and I have this as my reference: link” The question could be asked and answered in two posts. Just facts. No jokes. No opinions. No condescension. Is that really asking too much of GQ? **Rico:** > [@Rico](#): > > \ > Whether 'tis nobler to keep this thread in GQ or move it to Café Society… > Ah, heck with it. > 😃 > \ > [@Rico](#): > > \ > > I’m positive you meant to post this in Café Society. > Let me go back in time and move it for you. > There, much better. > > \ I know you think this is hilarious, to divert “stupid” questions to an alternate forum, but if you examine the vapid responses I’ve received, you’ll understand why I do not feel you have done me any favors. Did you really mean to insult me, as many of the above people have done? Are you of that club that says a person who asks my OP question is a cretin who failed high school freshman English and is now looking for a Cliff’s Notes video to help cram for the make-up test? And that, as such, I deserve a round pummeling for asking questions with obvious answers. And instead of simple sober factual answers I should be happy with dismissive negative opinions and jokes at my expense. Allow me to disabuse you of that notion. I’m a Thespian who has\* read\* and _rehearsed_ and\* played\* parts in \*virtually all \*of Shakespeare’s plays over the last few decades. Including the less produced ones like Cymbeline and Pericles, Prince of Tyre. So unlike the sneers recorded above about my not understanding the words or beauty of Shakespeare, my “fault” is much simpler: I am not a scholar of Shakespearian derivative works. The scripts I see are selected by directors, and they seldom contain mentions of related versions, except what variations exist between the various octavos and folios. So, the place I intended this question to be answered was GQ, which your instructions say is the factual forum. The one to use when Cecil does not answer a question, but still when some authoritative answer is wished for. And if posters can be encouraged to take a question at face value and be serious for once … … then the only legitimate answers to the OP would be of the form: 1. "Yes, there was a version of Lear written two centuries ago by those selfsame Lambs, who even then thought a more modern vocabulary would be usable in some contexts. However, it was in a separate book which is now out of print. 2. “No, this has never been tried for any of his plays, and I have this as my reference: link” The question could be asked and answered in two posts. Just facts. No jokes. No opinions. No condescension. Am I really asking too much of GQ? ---
**Author:** ![pocelene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/0ea827/32.png) [@pocelene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pocelene)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/34 "2005-10-23T21:50:12Z")
[Sorry about the double paste. Obviously not intentional.] ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/35 "2005-10-23T22:28:20Z")
> [@pocelene](#): > > **Rico:** A question for you re: > > I know you think this is hilarious, to divert “stupid” questions to an alternate forum, but if you examine the vapid responses I’ve received, you’ll understand why I do not feel you have done me any favors. > > Did you really mean to insult me, as many of the above people have done? > Are you of that club that says a person who asks my OP question is a cretin who failed high school freshman English and is now looking for a Cliff’s Notes video to help cram for the make-up test? And that, as such, I deserve a round pummeling for asking questions with obvious answers. And instead of simple sober factual answers I should be happy with dismissive negative opinions and jokes at my expense. > > Allow me to disabuse you of that notion. > I’m a Thespian who has\* read\* and _rehearsed_ and\* played\* parts in \*virtually all \*of Shakespeare’s plays over the last few decades. Including the less produced ones like Cymbeline and Pericles, Prince of Tyre. > > So unlike the sneers recorded above about my not understanding the words or beauty of Shakespeare, my “fault” is much simpler: I am not a scholar of Shakespearian derivative works. The scripts I see are selected by directors, and they seldom contain mentions of related versions, except what variations exist between the various octavos and folios. > > So, the place I intended this question to be answered was GQ, which your instructions say is the factual forum. The one to use when Cecil does not answer a question, but still when some authoritative answer is wished for. > > And if posters can be encouraged to take a question at face value and be serious for once … > > … then the only legitimate answers to the OP would be of the form: > > 1. "Yes, there was a version of Lear written two centuries ago by those selfsame Lambs, who even then thought a more modern vocabulary would be usable in some contexts. However, it was in a separate book which is now out of print. > 2. “No, this has never been tried for any of his plays, and I have this as my reference: link” > > The question could be asked and answered in two posts. Just facts. No jokes. No opinions. No condescension. Is that really asking too much of GQ? **Rico:** > …snip… You need slightly thicker skin **pocelene** , A few jokes and a few “dismissive negative opinions” should be expected to such an OP. Your opening post did not go into the details that your rant just did. You just in effect insulted everybody in the thread far worse than anyone insulted you. Have some patience and work on your Original Posts and better answers will be forthcoming. It is hard to tell the difference between a 16 year old looking for an easy read and a Thespian from your OP. I will apologize for myself as I thought in all honesty you were a Teen and not someone looking for a detailed answer. For future reference the little Wink symbol does mean it is a jest and you don’t need to lecture us on the fact WSS is not R&J. Good Luck in future postings and have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/36 "2005-10-23T22:35:14Z")
> [@pocelene](#): > > So, the place I intended this question to be answered was GQ, which your instructions say is the factual forum. The one to use when Cecil does not answer a question, but still when some authoritative answer is wished for. Hey, relax. There’s no judgement on the merit of your OP – it’s just a Cafe question. > [@Forum Description for Cafe Society](#): > > Our salon for art, drama, literature, movies, music, comics, cuisine – all the artistic disciplines – if it’s about creativity, entertainment, or leisure, **it goes here.** There are lots of straight-forward, “factual” questions about the arts. They still belong in the Cafe. No biggee. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/37 "2005-10-23T22:53:49Z")
> [@carterba](#): > > You’ll never be able to translate _all_ the allusions, references, jokes, and idioms, because those things are cultural, and culture changes faster than language. Shakespeare in contemporary English might be easier to read (it’s not all that hard to begin with), but you’ll still be missing things. I agree. The allusions to mythology and such are the hardest things to get, I find, and the least necessary to understand in terms of plot or characters. > [@Bassanio](#): > > We should hold day with the Antipodes, > If you would walk in absence of the sun. Not hard to understand in context. They’re walking and it’s late at night. But if you don’t know what the Antipodes are (and who does?), you’ll probably get thrown off by it. I think there’s no way to translate it into plain 20th century English without making people wonder why Bassanio says it in the first place. In cases like that I think it’s better to just make a different joke that’s “in the spirit” of the original, not just updating the words. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/38 "2005-10-23T23:12:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But if you don’t know what the Antipodes are (and who does?)… Oi! We Antipodeans know where we are! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/39 "2005-10-23T23:25:07Z")
Aye, it’s funny how much lower the vocabulary expectations are for folks in the last century or so. “How funny it’ll seem to come out among the people that walk with their heads downwards! The… antipathies, I think?” Alice was supposed to be exceptionally muddle-headed – but how many children today would even be familiar enough with _either_ of those words to get them confused? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443/40 "2005-10-23T23:37:30Z")
Does _Forbidden Planet_ count? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-shakespeare-ever-been-translated-into-modern-english/327443.md?page=3)