# Has someone explained the changes in first name popularity in western countries? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 27, 2007, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857 "2007-02-27T08:30:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/21 "2007-03-01T17:31:33Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] I can certainly see many of the others returning, as they lose the ‘old lady’ association described by **Miller**. My money’s on Dorothy and Ethel as the most likely. [/QUOTE] Heh. I was talking a co-worker named Dorothy and mentioned that it’s my middle name. “Oh, you must be named after an aunt or something.” since she couldn’t imagine it being current. (Grandma, actually.) I wonder about the last names/boys’ names for girls trend. Since when is Ryan a girl’s name? Taylor, McKenzie. I know there was Michael Learned, but she was a notable exception. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/22 "2007-03-01T17:47:55Z")
I’ve seen \*\*Fern Forest’s \*\* explanation before, but it seems a little too pat on the one hand and complex on the other. We named our sons Jason and Aaron after a lot of research and thought; we actually thought Jason was unique because we’d never known anyone with that name before, and because of its religious and heroic connotations. Imagine our surprise when three other boys in his Kindergarten class had the same name! My personal theory is that names like Brittany (Britni, Britney, etc.) and Tiffany (Tifini, Tiffani, etc.) got chosen because the sound appealed to middle-class ears. Tiffany evokes an image of glamor, quality and beauty; Brittany evokes the image of a beautiful region of a beautiful nation that is equated with culture and high fashion. New parents of the Boomer generation liked the sound of the names and sought to distinguish them only by changing the spelling. Some name groups have popularity among certain cultural groups, possibly because young parents want their children to fit in when they grow up. Here in the West, we see a lot of Codys, Travises, Tylers and Treys wearing Stetson hats and cowboy boots. Black Americans have come in for a lot of ridicule for the “made-up” names they have given their children over the past couple of decades, but that seems to truly be an attempt to come up with culturally distinctive names that do, in fact, identify the person as part of that ethnic group. The names evoke the person’s African heritage and instills pride in that heritage. Even the increasingly common practice of trans-gendering of girl’s names (Morgan, Taylor, Sydney/Sidney, Kendall, etc.) and using what once were considered strictly family names for first names (Madison, Kennedy, Mackenzie, etc.) is, IMHO, an attampt at sexual and cultural egaltarianism. I could be wrong about all of this, of course – it could just be the world’s greatest coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/23 "2007-03-01T17:57:48Z")
[QUOTE=Caffeine.addict] Weirdly enough, I know some folks who named their daughter Sabina. [/QUOTE] I can only hope that you know me and are talking about me. I knew whatever name I chose it would take off. I used to want the name Isabel, but that name has taken off. I should have gone with Murder\* or something. \*This was actually a name in the baby book we got. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/24 "2007-03-01T19:00:40Z")
The funny thing is, it seems like the children of Asian immigrants get the _really_ old-fashioned names - “old-fashioned” names have come back in style, like Olivia or Hannah, but I see little kids of recent Asian extraction (the ones I know have Chinese parents, I don’t know if this holds true for other nations of origin) named things like Herman and Edna and Ethel and Benedict and such. I think it’s nice to see such traditional names on children. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/25 "2007-03-01T19:18:03Z")
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ] Any Doper parents who named their girls Jessica or Jennifer in the 70s or 80s care to shed some light? [/QUOTE] Well, my sister was born in 1977 and given the name “Jessie” — that’s her legal name, not Jessica — but she was named after our great grandfather Jesse. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/26 "2007-03-01T19:22:14Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] The funny thing is, it seems like the children of Asian immigrants get the _really_ old-fashioned names - “old-fashioned” names have come back in style, like Olivia or Hannah, but I see little kids of recent Asian extraction (the ones I know have Chinese parents, I don’t know if this holds true for other nations of origin) named things like Herman and Edna and Ethel and Benedict and such. I think it’s nice to see such traditional names on children. [/QUOTE] My half-Japanese roommate (who is in his early 20s) is named Ernest. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/27 "2007-03-01T19:35:00Z")
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ] I’ve always wondered why Jessica and Jennifer topped the lists for the 70s, 80s and 90s. [/QUOTE] I read somewhere that for girls’ names, certain sounds get popular. So, Jennifer comes in - and it brings with it all of the other “J” names (including “Jessica,”) and other names that end in “er” (including “Heather”). Look at the link in **Mayo Speaks!** posts. And type in just one letter. “O,” names, for example, are huge at the turn of the century, disappear almost entirely in the 40s-80s, and start to make a comback in the 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![hekk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@hekk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hekk)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/28 "2007-03-01T19:55:51Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] The funny thing is, it seems like the children of Asian immigrants get the _really_ old-fashioned names - “old-fashioned” names have come back in style, like Olivia or Hannah, but I see little kids of recent Asian extraction (the ones I know have Chinese parents, I don’t know if this holds true for other nations of origin) named things like Herman and Edna and Ethel and Benedict and such. I think it’s nice to see such traditional names on children. [/QUOTE] On this note, 2 Hmong assemblers at the place I work are named “Elvis”. Not traditional, I know, but different nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![tiger\_lily](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/96bed5/32.png) [@tiger\_lily](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiger_lily)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/29 "2007-03-01T20:02:29Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] _raises hand_ I got my name because Kyle Rote Jr. was playing soccer on TV while I was being born. I’d’ve been a “Steve,” but someone convinced my parents it’d sound like I was stuttering (my last name begins with “St-” also). So I got named because of a guy on TV. Of course, as that nifty doohicky **Mayo Speaks!** posted shows, in the 90s _everybody_ started naming their kid “Kyle.” I went from never having met any other Kyles, so teaching swimming classes _full_ of the little buggers. Like to have drove me crazy, it did. “Kyle, stop running!” “Kyle, pay attention!” “Kyle, stop drinking the pool water!” Never having been around any other Kyles, every time I thought they were yelling at _me_. So, best off not naming kids after the TV. [/QUOTE] My two guesses for Kyle sources: the character Kyle Reese in _Terminator_, and the actor Kyle MacLachlan of _Dune/Blue Velvet/Twin Peaks_ fame. In looking at the Baby Name Generator that Mayo Speaks! linked to, I noticed that my name, and the names of my closest friends growing up, were most popular about 15-20 years before we were born. It’s as if our mothers all picked names they liked as pre-teens/teenagers, and then actually used them once they had daughters to name. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/30 "2007-03-01T22:00:18Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] We warned her that since “the hunk” in a current popular TV show was a Marcos, there would be quite a few around and people would think she’d chosen the name for the TV one. She didn’t believe us, “aw c’mon, who’d name their kid after a TV character?” [/QUOTE] I’ve often heard it said that television is perhaps the most important influence on name trends. The name of a popular character on a popular show is pretty well guaranteed to become more common among children born during that popularity. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/31 "2007-03-01T22:50:21Z")
I wonder if all the people who have recently named their girls Britney and now wishing they hadn’t. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/32 "2007-03-01T22:55:10Z")
[QUOTE=Phase42] I wonder if all the people who have recently named their girls Britney and now wishing they hadn’t. [/QUOTE] But those kids will outlive the weird one’s fame. They might have a slight twinge now, but their kids are surrounded by other Britneys, and will be throughout their lives. And these kids probably couldn’t care less about Britney being in rehab. ---
**Author:** ![Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirror_Image_egamI_rorriM)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/33 "2007-03-01T22:58:05Z")
[QUOTE=Zeldar] As I said before, once a relatively rare name gets attached to someone who becomes the embodiment of evil or depravity, that name is likely to fall out of favor until the time that that evildoer’s influence has faded. As an example of this feature, try to think how many people you know with the name Sirhan, Attila, Judas, Benedict, Adolph, Idi, Caligula or Vlad. Yes, there may be a few of them about, but it’s unlikely their names will be revived with any great fanfare – mostly by some iconoclast with a taste for the shocking. [/QUOTE] You mean like the Pope? ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/34 "2007-03-01T23:13:17Z")
[QUOTE=Mirror Image egamI rorriM] You mean like the Pope? [/QUOTE] Oops. I guess I messed that one up, didn’t I? I bet if I had done more than shoot from the hip on those names I’d find some really good counterexamples, too. I hope the exceptions don’t wreck my main point, though. I had meant to add that once someone with an unusual name gets really famous, the odds go up that that name will be used a lot by that generation but will fade in popularity after the Famous One passes on. People like Elvis, Oprah, Ringo (although I can’t really think of any Ringos offhand). You don’t hear all that many kids named Sojourner these days. Or at least I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![dart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7bcc69/32.png) [@dart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dart)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/35 "2007-03-02T00:12:14Z")
As to the Asian immigrants giving their kids (or choosing for themselves) American names that sound older to our ears, I work with refugees, and often they choose the name of an American who helped them a lot when they first got here. That could explain the babies with names that sound middle-aged or older. They also often choose names of famous Americans they like, without the benefit of realizing how the names sound to Americans. Hence, Elvis. (We once had to discourage someone from going with Bush.) ---
**Author:** ![stargazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@stargazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stargazer)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/36 "2007-03-02T00:27:56Z")
One thing that the author of the Baby Name Wizard (the book that goes along with **Mayo Speaks!** ’ link) says is that, to a certain extent, it makes sense that your peers like the same names as you – you have grown up with the same pop culture influences and references, your parents are likely around the same age (and therefore probably have names that you won’t want to name your kids), you’ve probably read a lot of the same books, seen the same movies and TV shows, etc. So that doesn’t explain the popularity or unpopularity of any specific name, it sort of explains why name popularity ebbs and flows the way it does. We tend to give our kids names from our grandparents’ and great-grandparents’ generations, but not our parents’. My theory is that a lot of us either didn’t know our great- or grandparents, so we hear stories from our relatives that make them seem worthy of emulation or honor, or at least don’t make their name sound like an “old person’s” name. Also, we probably don’t personally know as many people from their generations as we do from our parents’ generation, so we don’t have a direct “but that’s a _mom_ name” association with that name. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/37 "2007-03-02T05:59:51Z")
I think the Freakonomic guys have it right on the money. For one, they predicted that my name, Ava, would end up in the top ten well before it did. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/38 "2007-03-02T06:10:02Z")
Whenever the discussion of baby names comes up, I have to include the obligatory link to this hilarious site: [http://www.notwithoutmyhandbag.com/babynames/](http://www.notwithoutmyhandbag.com/babynames/) ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/39 "2007-03-02T06:40:20Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] Even the increasingly common practice of trans-gendering of girl’s names (Morgan, Taylor, Sydney/Sidney, Kendall, etc.) and using what once were considered strictly family names for first names (Madison, Kennedy, Mackenzie, etc.) is, IMHO, an attampt at sexual and cultural egaltarianism. [/QUOTE] Giving girls surnames for first names goes back centuries, mostly in the middle class and above. Usually it was a name within the family, such as the mother’s maiden name. It was a way of honoring a name that would pass out of memory, whether because of no male descendants of that line or for other reasons. The only new thing about the current trend is that the surname might not actually be a part of the family’s history. I can’t think of any examples off the top of my head, but it’s not exactly a new thing. And all the boys’ names you list as becoming transgendered have a long history as surnames. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2007, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857/40 "2007-03-02T06:47:33Z")
[QUOTE=Zeldar] People like Elvis, Oprah, Ringo (although I can’t really think of any Ringos offhand) [/QUOTE] Me neither, but out of interest, I just checked John and Paul on the popularity graph thing above, and both peaked in the 1960s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-someone-explained-the-changes-in-first-name-popularity-in-western-countries/393857.md?page=3)