# Has Something Happened in Israel Lately? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 8, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610 "2011-02-08T02:43:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/1 "2011-02-08T02:43:34Z")
Sure, I live in the Middle East. That certainly does not make me an expert. Frankly I do not even pay much attention to a lot in the news nowadays. But I have noticed a number of people in my circle of acquaintance (FaceBook and here) who are very upset. All these people are Israelis. It seems to me Israel is enjoying the longest hunk of peace it has ever had. (Would you rather be an Israeli now or in '67?) Things are going as well as could be expected. Further, there seem to be few big changes happening suddenly. The US president is not to their liking, foreign enemies who may soon have scary weapons, various liberal Europeans are saying hurtful things, but all of this seems business as usual for Israel. So why are so many people so upset? Do Israelis or Jews in general somehow feel uniquely threatened over the last year or so? I would really appreciate some education on this, but fear we will soon be Great Debating, so we might as well start in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/2 "2011-02-08T05:32:45Z")
If you’re talking about the last few weeks or so, is it that they’re worried about the current wave of unrest in the Arab world, and especially in Egypt? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/3 "2011-02-08T05:39:37Z")
Our IKEA burned down over the weekend! Do you have any idea what a serious blow that was? Israelis love IKEA! Seriously, though - it’s mostly a matter of internal politics, specifically the public’s dissatisfaction with the Netanyahu administration, most specifically the public’s anger with his Minister of Defense, Ehud Barak. I’ll try and give you a summary of the whole Barak-Labor-Ashkenazi-Gallant mess later on today (sorry - busy morning). To be brief: yes, people are worried about Egypt, but they’re worried because they don’t believe that our government is up to the task of dealing with the situation. And IMHO, they’re absolutely right to think so. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/4 "2011-02-08T06:30:51Z")
It seems to I’ve heard that Israel had a hard time finding anyone to command the army since generals are too busy planting olive trees or something similar. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/5 "2011-02-08T10:59:06Z")
I think what happened to them is that more interesting stuff started to happen _around_ them. Fortunately, Israel isn’t North Korea, and is unlikely to start killing people just to bring attention back to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/6 "2011-02-08T13:03:44Z")
I realize it is rough to be an Israeli, but it seems this is the best time for Israel in a long, long time. Thank you all for your thoughtful non-screaming comments. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Amazing_Hanna)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/7 "2011-02-08T14:04:58Z")
The easier life is, the more time people have for complaining, right? Only the truly miserable never whine. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/8 "2011-02-08T14:46:04Z")
Here’s a [brief summary](http://blogs.forward.com/jj-goldberg/135211/)of the affair I mentioned before: > [@](#): > > The feud between the defense minister and the chief of staff has been common knowledge for several years, but it wasn’t brought out into the public until last summer. > … > > What followed was a long, ugly squabble with three candidates jostling for Barak’s favor. The main candidates were Galant, known to be Barak’s favorite; Maj. Gen. Gadi Eisenkot, chief of the Northern Command, who is close to Ashkenazi, and Maj. Gen. Benny Gantz, who served as Ashkenazi’s deputy for three years before being replaced by Naveh. > > The Barak-Ashkenazi feud is partly personal—Barak is said to be deeply jealous of Ashkenazi’s popularity with the troops and the public—and partly philosophical. Barak and Galant share a belief in maximum firepower and taking the fight to the enemy. Ashkenazi and Eisenkot believe in exhausting diplomacy before opening fire. Both Ashkenazi and Eisenkot were appointed to their current posts in the first months after the summer 2006 fiasco of the Second Lebanon War. Ashkenazi was called out of retirement—he was director general of the Defense Ministry, after having served as deputy chief and then turned down for chief in 2005—to replace the disgraced Dan Halutz, rebuild the command structure and restore morale. > > … > > Perhaps worst of all in Barak’s eyes, Ashkenazi opposes a military strike against Iran, arguing that the certain cost in terrorism, bombardment and international isolation will not be worth the gain—and that diplomacy and covert action have been effective so far. Eisenkot agrees with him. So does Gantz. So do Meir Dagan, who recently stepped down as head of the Mossad, and Yuval Diskin, who recently stepped down as head of the Shin Bet. Both secret services got new chiefs who favor military action. > > … > Since the whole thing blew up at the end of January, the army and the political system have been in an uproar. That’s just the tip of the iceberg, of course. Barak has dismantled his own Labor party, alienated essentially everyone except a small circle of yes-men, shifted to the right of the Likud and has treated the Israeli defense establishment as his own personal domain. Bibi Netanyahu, on his part, has made a career out of doing little except equivocate, procrastinate and act like Barak’s little bitch; on the rare occasion he actually manages to decide to do something, he usually fails. The only thing he seems to be interested in is keeping his coalition stable. The thing is, people let them get away with it so long as terrorism was down and the economy was up; last week, however, gas prices rose and food subsidies dropped, which pushed a lot of people over the edge. I’m not surprised people are angry. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/9 "2011-02-08T18:41:42Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I realize it is rough to be an Israeli, but it seems this is the best time for Israel in a long, long time. And what do you think is the reason that now is the “best time”? It’s because there is peace, and a strong economy. And that is all about to change, now that the largest army in the Arab world, armed with the best American weapons, is about to be under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood. Liberal professors in ivory towers are filling the news screens with drivel about the wonderful opportunities for freedom and democracy in the new Egypt, in a new era of peace. The average Israeli ain’t buyin’ it. It’s as unrealistic as when Nancy Reagan brought peace to the ghetto by telling the gangs in the 'hood to “just say no” We know our 'hood. Remember, every house and every apartment in Israel is built with one room of heavily reinforced concrete, a bomb-proof window shutter, and an air filtration unit in case of chemical warfare.. You usually use it as a kid’s bedroom–but it’s not called “Mikey’s room”.It’s called the bomb shelter. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Amazing_Hanna)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/10 "2011-02-08T19:00:19Z")
Oh, so the Egyptian _Untermenschen_ can’t be allowed democracy or freedom, and need an oppressive dictator to babysit them forever or else you’re going to start to cry? That’s just sad. Freedom is coming to the Middle East and not a moment too soon. Better get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/11 "2011-02-08T19:16:46Z")
> [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](#): > > Freedom is coming to the Middle East and not a moment too soon. Better get used to it. If the Egyptian people choose to let freedom ring, all Israelis will be very happy to “get used to it”. But it is very likely that the Muslim Brotherhood will win in any upcoming vote. And then Egypt’s first free election will also be its last. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/12 "2011-02-08T20:01:52Z")
> [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](#): > > Freedom is coming to the Middle East and not a moment too soon. Better get used to it. I think something has to exist before one can get used to it, so I figure “wait and see” is the best bet. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/13 "2011-02-08T23:52:44Z")
The Muslim Brotherhood is made up mostly of older men. The population of Egypt is young. The protestors especially so. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/14 "2011-02-09T03:19:14Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > And what do you think is the reason that now is the “best time”? > It’s because there is peace, and a strong economy. And that is all about to change, now that the largest army in the Arab world, armed with the best American weapons, is about to be under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood. This super duper Egyptian army. Tell me: 1. Do they have nuclear weapons? 2. Have they magically forgotten Israel does have nuclear weapons? Even assuming Egypt is taken over by radical fundmentalists- a highly questionable theory - even fundamentalists are not partial to wholesale annihilation. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/15 "2011-02-09T03:30:37Z")
> [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](#): > > Egyptian _Untermenschen_ can’t be allowed democracy or freedom Is this for real? Someone states that they’re worried about a massive army under the command of the Muslim Brotherhood, and your response is to claim that anybody wants to prohibit the Egyptians from having “democracy” or “freedom” and, further, that they’re being considered sub-human? For serious? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/16 "2011-02-09T04:53:14Z")
“Best time”? I think not. This is not a time of peace; it a just lack of current attacks. This is not a time of hope; it is a time of resignation by many of each side that there is no near term way out of the current untenable circumstance. Not being attacked is good but if I was an Israeli I’d feel a bit like I was under the sword of Damocles. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/17 "2011-02-09T09:52:13Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > And what do you think is the reason that now is the “best time”? > It’s because there is peace, and a strong economy. And that is all about to change, now that the largest army in the Arab world, armed with the best American weapons, is about to be under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood. > > Liberal professors in ivory towers are filling the news screens with drivel about the wonderful opportunities for freedom and democracy in the new Egypt, in a new era of peace. > > The average Israeli ain’t buyin’ it. > It’s as unrealistic as when Nancy Reagan brought peace to the ghetto by telling the gangs in the 'hood to “just say no” > We know our 'hood. I think South Africa during the apartheid just gave a call: they want you back. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/18 "2011-02-09T10:12:40Z")
Damn, and I thought that Hannah’s post was an absurdity. “We think that the Muslim Brotherhood might take power in Egypt, and that might lead to violence.” “Apartheid, apartheid, apartheid!!!” Oops. Am I being a commissar? Or was it an inquisitor… I always forget what costume I’m supposed to be wearing when I persecute such a clear-eyed, cogent analysis of the situation. > [@DSeid](#): > > This is not a time of peace; it a just lack of current attacks. Well… > [@DSeid](#): > > This is not a time of hope; it is a time of resignation by many of each side that there is no near term way out of the current untenable circumstance. It isn’t a time of hope, no. But you also have to place it into context. After Oslo we actually saw a _rise_ in suicide bombings against Israeli targets. After Clinton’s Bridging Proposal we saw the Second Intifada. After Israel pulled out of Gaza Hamas seized power and used Gaza as a base from which to launch attacks. Now the security barrier has all but stopped suicide bombings, Hamas is somewhat contained and although they’ve been steadily launching rockets for the last couple years, they haven’t gone for the all-out barrages we saw a while ago. Hezbollah has been, somewhat, alienated from Lebanon’s actual government and it’s not been acting with violence and impunity recently. There is, at least, a degree of stability. Yes, if anything is going to be accomplished we need to get a two state (most likely excluding Hamastan) solution asap. Yes, the US needs to lean on Israel, the PA needs to come close to some of their offers as leaked in the recent Palestine Papers, etc, etc, etc. But if you look at disillusionment over the peace process,[the booming growth in the Israel economy](http://www.newsweek.com/2010/03/04/israel-s-philosopher-of-finance.html) and a period of relative calm, seeing as how some Israelis might look at this as a relatively good state of affairs isn’t surprising. Of course it would be a much _better_ time if the West Bank was sovereign tomorrow and a vibrant trading partner with Israel, tourism for both regions exploded (no pun intended) and Hamas’ thugocracy fell overnight and the people of Gaza demanded to join the West Bank in recognizing Israel and living in peace with it… but that doesn’t look like it’ll happen. And it’s not clear that the PA could even make good on the negotiating planks it held even a couple years ago. Time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/19 "2011-02-09T14:51:23Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > It seems to me Israel is enjoying the longest hunk of peace it has ever had. “I don’t like this, sir. It’s too quiet!” [arrow sprouts between shoulder blades] ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/20 "2011-02-09T14:52:49Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This super duper Egyptian army. Tell me: > > 1. Do they have nuclear weapons? > 2. Have they magically forgotten Israel does have nuclear weapons? > > Even assuming Egypt is taken over by radical fundmentalists- a highly questionable theory - even fundamentalists are not partial to wholesale annihilation. I dunno. History is not on the side of your thesis. Israel had nukes in 1973. > **[Nuclear weapons and Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Israel#Weapons_production_1967-present)** > > Israel is the only country in the Middle East to possess nuclear weapons. Estimates of Israel's stockpile range from 90 to 400 nuclear warheads, and the country is believed to possess a nuclear triad of delivery options: by F-15 and F-16 fighters, by Dolphin-class submarine-launched cruise missiles, and by the Jericho series of intermediate to intercontinental range ballistic missiles. Its first deliverable nuclear weapon is estimated to have been completed i Israel maintains a policy of deli... In 1973, Egypt launched its most successful ever attack on Israel. > **[Yom Kippur War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War)** > > Egyptian front > International front Conclusion: Israel having nukes does not necessarily prevent an aggressive war on the part of Egypt against Israel. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610.md?page=2)