# Has Something Happened in Israel Lately? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 8, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610 "2011-02-08T02:43:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/41 "2011-02-10T10:36:42Z")
In short, the only people immune to realpolitik are dilettantes with no personal stake in the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/42 "2011-02-10T12:07:00Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > If you’re gonna be bigoted at least go for originality points. A general note to everyone: comments about anyone’s attitude toward the situation in Egypt are fair game, but comments about other posters (such as suggesting they are bigots) is not. Stick to discussing the arguments and not the people posting them. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/43 "2011-02-10T12:16:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > A general note to everyone: comments about anyone’s attitude toward the situation in Egypt are fair game, but comments about other posters (such as suggesting they are bigots) is not. Stick to discussing the arguments and not the people posting them. I dont get it, if you can comment about someone’s attitude, then you can discuss the bigotry of one’s arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/44 "2011-02-10T13:49:22Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Chris Hani was the General Secretary of the South African Communist Party and they received massive amounts of aid from the Soviet Union and their satellite states, including Poland. > > Why would you be remotely surprised that he’d support the crushing of the group trying to overthrow one of his allies. > > Next, you’ll be shocked to learn that Nelson Mandela was a huge fan of Khaddafi, Castro, and Arafat. I’m not unaware of the general configuration of late-apartheid South African politics, thank you, and I didn’t say I was surprised. I said I’d like to read more about the context of the specific statements you were thinking of–what did he say, who did he he say it to, what was going on in Poland and South Africa at the time. Or did you mean simply that Hani “supported the crushing of the Solidarity movement” by not objecting to his allies’ actions in another part of the world? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/45 "2011-02-10T14:09:02Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > I dont get it, if you can comment about someone’s attitude, then you can discuss the bigotry of one’s arguments. I am saying you need to make it clear you are talking about the arguments and not the poster him or herself. “If you’re gonna be bigoted” is a comment about the person. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/46 "2011-02-10T14:44:50Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’d be interested to see a poll, but the idea is hardly coming out of left field. … Oh I am quite sure that the average Israeli is concerned about what regime change in Egypt may mean for them and would view any rise in the MB’s influence with some trepidation. That is different than thinking that it is going to translate to the MB controlling the military, or, bluster aside, that any sizable portion of the Egyptian populus wants a war with Israel. No poll to cite but what I can find is this range of opinion pieces - On the Right you have the stuff the [JPost](http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=207554) puts out. Note that while it is very concerned about agression, conventional military attacks are not in the list of worries. > [@](#): > > Only a demented person would endorse majority rule which would elect leaders committed to child sacrifice, for example. But should that not apply equally in relation to electing those who demand the decapitation of gays, adulterers or apostates? Or who support a society which sanctifies suicide bombings? Or who endorse the amputation of limbs of petty thieves? Or who promote genocide? > > It is thus incomprehensible to observe campaigners for human rights demanding the ouster of an autocratic Mubarak and endorsing a “democratic revolution” which could lead to the election of a regime dominated by Islamic fundamentalists and committed to Shari’a law. Not merely because of the outrages that radical Islamic zealots would inflict on their own people, but also because of the aggression they intend to perpetrate against their neighbors and their proclaimed objective: to achieve world domination. > > Therefore, liberals who applaud the revolt in Egypt should cease moralizing and deal with the real world. … > > … Hamas would receive a massive boost if the Muslim Brotherhood becomes an influential force in the new regime. It could even win a “democratic” election in the West Bank, as it did in Gaza. We certainly cannot ignore the implications of entering into a peace agreement with the PA if it is soon to be transformed into a Hamastan. > > There are also other harsh lessons. It would surely be irresponsible for us to even remotely rely on an Obama-led US that simply dumps its closest allies when the going gets rough – especially as we could soon be surrounded by rejectionist states, as was the case in 1948. > > While hoping that Omar Suleiman and the Egyptian military will prevent an Islamic fundamentalist takeover, we must gird ourselves for the worst. Unless we are self-reliant, strong and united, the US, the Europeans and other parties will seek to further appease the new jihadist forces by intensifying pressure on us to make further unilateral concessions. > > If ever there were ominous parallels between our position and that of Czechoslovakia in 1938, it is in relation to the pressures we are likely to face should Egypt become transformed into an Islamic fundamentalist state and link up with Iran, Lebanon, an increasingly hostile Turkey and possibly even Jordan. To the more liberal [Haaretz](http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/q-a-on-egypt-protests-with-haaretz-mideast-analyst-zvi-bar-el-1.342258) take: > [@](#): > > Q: Is there any possibility of the Islamization of Egypt as there is anti-America and anti-Israel feeling amongst the masses? > From Satnam Singh Maan (via Facebook) > A: Egypt is an Islamic state its people and citizens are mostly Muslims. If you mean that the regime will become Islamized, I don’t believe that there is a danger of that, and you should distinguish between anti-American feeling, anti-Israel feelings, and Islamization. The demonstrators in Cairo are mostly young people who want democracy but don’t want an Islamized state and yet they are not really keen on Israel’s policies in the Middle East, nor do they want an American interference or American dictation as to their future regime … I don’t see a possibility that Muslim Brotherhood would take over the regime in Egypt. It may become partners in it and it may put Hamas into reconsidering its position toward the Palestinian Authority and toward Israel. Hopefully they will realize that even an ideological and religious movement can be part of a regime which recognizes Israel. … A regime change in Egypt may have a regional impact, mostly for the Egyptians. From a strategic point of view Egypt may lose its leading status in the area, which may affect the status of other countries like Saudi Arabia, Syria and Iran. On the other hand, they gain a lot by having a better regime, more democratic, which will cater to its citizens considerations. Yet we shouldn’t always confine the impact of regime changes in the area to a viewpoint which looks at the military possibilities of Israel and other countries. We may think as well in terms of disagreements, operations and coordination, rather than looking at the IDF’s ability to cope with the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/47 "2011-02-10T15:20:23Z")
The danger is not that the MB will, with popular will, create an Islamicised state. It is that they, being the most organized element among the protestors, will sieze the opportunity to effectively take control of the movement. While it is a very different situation, the example of Iran is instructive. The original anti-Shah revolt was a popular one and consisted of many secular groups totally unaffiliated with the Ayatollahs … but they were ruthlessly put down after the Shah was deposed. Or, in a very different situation, the fate of the Russian Constituent Assembly election in 1917 at the hands of the Bolsheviks. > **[Russian Constituent Assembly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Constituent_Assembly#The_Provisional_Government_.28February_-_October_1917.29)** > > The All Russian Constituent Assembly\[a\] (Russian: Всероссийское учредительное собрание, romanized: Vserossiyskoye uchreditelnoye sobraniye) was a constituent assembly convened in Russia after the February Revolution of 1917. It met for 13 hours, from 4 p.m. to 5 a.m., 18–19 January \[O.S. 5–6 January\] 1918, whereupon it was illegally dissolved by the Bolshevik-led All-Russian Central Executive Committee, proclaiming the Third All-Russian Congress of Soviets the new governing body of Ru The 1917 ... What worries some (and I think with some validity) is that we here in the West are applauding and hoping for what may amount, to use an analogy, to a “Russian Constituent Assembly election” of Egypt’s own, and discounting their equivalent of the Bolsheviks as a serious concern because (as in that Russian election) they only have a minority (in the case of Bolsheviks, 22%) of the population on their side. Naturally, the majority of the Egyptian population does not support any sort of extreme radical islamicization. Most are in fact totally against it. But the majority are not organized. The French revolution, the great-grandaddy of populist revolutions, saw a similar trajectory of course. It appears to be a consistent concern in popular uprisings - the danger being vastly increased where, as here, the great mass of the protestors have no obvious leadership and the minority of extremists does. The fear is that the unorganized majority will create a weak and compromised attempt at democratic reform which will fail to bring any immediate substantive benefits (remembering that Egypt has no tradition of democracy and is economically in serious trouble), and thus be vulnerable to a minority of well-organized extremists. … Of course, in expressing this concern what I’m really saying is that I wish to bring back Aparthied, Jim Crow, and, quite possibly, the use of Egyptians for slave labour in pyramid-building. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Amazing_Hanna)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/48 "2011-02-10T16:03:33Z")
Be afraid - be very afraid. The scary, terrifying people of Egypt - the Brown Menace, as it were - might actually get a measure of influence over their own affairs. How knows what they’ll do? It could be the Mummy of all islamist revolutions! A veritable pyramid scheme… of doom! Well, guess what: Mubarak just stepped down, and he says all the protesters’ demands will be met. A long time a go, somebody else confronted the pharaoh and asked him to let his people go. And, eventually, even thought the pharaoh’s hard was hard as the stone at the center of a pyramid, they were set free. It wasn’t the end of the world then, and it won’t be this time either. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/49 "2011-02-10T16:07:46Z")
You know, you seem to be obsessed with the Egyptian’s race. Do you have some sort of problem with North Africans? Because my Algerian in-laws would like a word with you. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/50 "2011-02-10T16:09:28Z")
It`s ironic – if not hypocritical - how a country where extreme religious right holds the power and refuses peace by eroding any good will and patience is accusing the neighbouring secular country of possibility to become like them. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/51 "2011-02-10T16:13:42Z")
> [@The\_Amazing\_Hanna](#): > > Be afraid - be very afraid. The scary, terrifying people of Egypt - the Brown Menace, as it were - might actually get a measure of influence over their own affairs. How knows what they’ll do? It could be the Mummy of all islamist revolutions! A veritable pyramid scheme… of doom! Yeah, like expressing concern about the French revolution demonstrated infamous anti-French bigotry. Can’t trust those White peasants! > [@](#): > > Well, guess what: Mubarak just stepped down, and he says all the protesters’ demands will be met. Well, if you can’t trust Mubarak about meeting protester’s demands, who can you trust? 😃 I have no doubt Mubarak will step down - the guy is after all 82, so sooner or later that was inevitable - but whether the protestors will like the shape of the regime to follow is another story. We will see. > [@](#): > > A long time a go, somebody else confronted the pharaoh and asked him to let his people go. And, eventually, even thought the pharaoh’s hard was hard as the stone at the center of a pyramid, they were set free. It wasn’t the end of the world then, and it won’t be this time either. Yeah, but that was a _myth_. Reality might be a trifle more complex. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/52 "2011-02-10T16:54:56Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > It`s ironic – if not hypocritical - how a country where extreme religious right holds the power and refuses peace by eroding any good will and patience is accusing the neighbouring secular country of possibility to become like them. It’s ironic - if not hypocritical - how uninformed some people are on the subject of Israel. 1. The extreme religious right does not hold “the power” in Israel. Israel has freedom of worship and belief. Israel has gay pride parades (despite protests and vitriol from the Jewish and Muslim religious factions), while Egyptian gays are [persecuted](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Egypt) under the “secular” Mubarak regime. Calling Israel religious and Egypt secular is laughable. 2. Half of the extreme religious right in Israel couldn’t care less about the West Bank, Golan, and Gaza as long as their religious institutions receive government funding. They consistently voted in favor of things like the Oslo accords and Gaza withdrawal as long as they got paid off. 3. The reason most Israelis are wary of major territorial concessions and the creation of a Palestinian state is fear for their security, not a religious belief in greater Israel. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/53 "2011-02-10T16:56:53Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > … whether the protestors will like the shape of the regime to follow is another story. We will see… Well, I for one will [get down my knees and pray](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUbGLVvfB7Y) … > [@](#): > > I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution > Take a bow for the new revolution > Smile and grin at the change all around me > Pick up my guitar and play > Just like yesterday > And I’ll get on my knees and pray > We don’t get fooled again > Don’t get fooled again … ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/54 "2011-02-10T17:11:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Our IKEA burned down over the weekend! Do you have any idea what a serious blow that was? Israelis love IKEA! > > Seriously, though - it’s mostly a matter of internal politics, specifically the public’s dissatisfaction with the Netanyahu administration, most specifically the public’s anger with his Minister of Defense, Ehud Barak. I’ll try and give you a summary of the whole Barak-Labor-Ashkenazi-Gallant mess later on today (sorry - busy morning). To be brief: yes, people are worried about Egypt, but they’re worried because they don’t believe that our government is up to the task of dealing with the situation. And IMHO, they’re absolutely right to think so. I’d like to publicly thank Alessan and others who answered the OP’s question before this thread turned completely to shit. (I guess the corollary to the rule that you can’t talk Middle East without things turning into an Israel shoutfest is that you can’t talk Israel without things turning into an Israel & the Middle East shoutfest). ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/55 "2011-02-10T17:19:51Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > It’s ironic - if not hypocritical - how uninformed some people are on the subject of Israel. > > 1. The extreme religious right does not hold “the power” in Israel. Israel has freedom of worship and belief. Israel has gay pride parades (despite protests and vitriol from the Jewish and Muslim religious factions), while Egyptian gays are [persecuted](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Egypt) under the “secular” Mubarak regime. Calling Israel religious and Egypt secular is laughable. > > 2. Half of the extreme religious right in Israel couldn’t care less about the West Bank, Golan, and Gaza as long as their religious institutions receive government funding. They consistently voted in favor of things like the Oslo accords and Gaza withdrawal as long as they got paid off. > > 3. The reason most Israelis are wary of major territorial concessions and the creation of a Palestinian state is fear for their security, not a religious belief in greater Israel. It’s never you. It could never be YOU. It’s always someone else. Sure, whatever. Khm… for example, [Shas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shas), the ultra-orthodox party, key to Netanyahu government. Party leader has some fine words for Arabs (just recent in 2010): _“It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable.”_ It’s also lovely to read his letter of praise to Mubarak. Let me preclude your response - yeah, I have no idea what I’m talking about, I will read more about it and I know, it’s complex issue. There, saved you some typing. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/56 "2011-02-10T17:32:02Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > It’s never you. It could never be YOU. It’s always someone else. Sure, whatever. > > Khm… for example, [Shas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shas), the ultra-orthodox party, key to Netanyahu government. Party leader has some fine words for Arabs (just recent in 2010): > > _“It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable.”_ > > It’s also lovely to read his letter of praise to Mubarak. > > Let me preclude your response - yeah, I have no idea what I’m talking about, I will read more about it and I know, it’s complex issue. There, saved you some typing. Thank you for your substantive refutation. Shas, of course, did not oppose the Oslo Accords and in any case is less than 10% of the Knesset. It’s also absurd to justify your description of Israel as a religious state by quoting Ovadia Yosef, when he’s rather famous in Israel for making these sorts of statements and then being roundly mocked for them in the free overwhelmingly secular press. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/57 "2011-02-10T17:52:01Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > Thank you for your substantive refutation. Shas, of course, did not oppose the Oslo Accords and in any case is less than 10% of the Knesset. It’s also absurd to justify your description of Israel as a religious state by quoting Ovadia Yosef, when he’s rather famous in Israel for making these sorts of statements and then being roundly mocked for them in the free overwhelmingly secular press. There you go _again_. Mucking up his clear understanding with facts. 🙂 To be fair though, the problem remains that few coalitions can afford to tell the far RR to fuck off. Because their few votes are needed to put the numbers of a coalition over the edge needed to form a government, they have power disproportionate to their numbers and get concessions. And those concessions have eroded the possibilities for a real peace settlement. On edit: no that is not quite like the concern over the MB. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/58 "2011-02-10T18:11:58Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I’d like to publicly thank Alessan and others who answered the OP’s question before this thread turned completely to shit. You’re welcome. I try to bring somethig new to these threads: either some actual information that hasn’t already been chewed to death, or some novel opinion or point of view. Then I usually bail - because seriously, what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/59 "2011-02-10T18:14:51Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > There you go _again_. Mucking up his clear understanding with facts. 🙂 > > To be fair though, the problem remains that few coalitions can afford to tell the far RR to fuck off. Because their few votes are needed to put the numbers of a coalition over the edge needed to form a government, they have power disproportionate to their numbers and get concessions. And those concessions have eroded the possibilities for a real peace settlement. > > On edit: no that is not quite like the concern over the MB. Yes, to a certain extent that’s true. But on the other hand most of the extreme religious can be bought off - that’s Shas and UTJ with a combined 16 seats. Meanwhile, the actual religious Zionists who have religious/ideological objections to territorial compromise have a mere 8 seats, and the largest “far-right” party in the Knesset is Yisrael Beitenu, which is relatively anti-religious. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610/60 "2011-02-10T19:51:09Z")
It`s always nice to see you guys work in tandem to really obfuscate and make fun of the poster even though it`s all made up. 1st one says: > [@Shmendrik](#): > > Thank you for your substantive refutation. Shas, of course, did not oppose the Oslo Accords and in any case is less than 10% of the Knesset. It’s also absurd to justify your description of Israel as a religious state by quoting Ovadia Yosef, when he’s rather famous in Israel for making these sorts of statements and then being roundly mocked for them in the free overwhelmingly secular press. And then the other, with no real interest in checking anything confirms with somewhat extatic pronouncemet: > [@DSeid](#): > > There you go _again_. Mucking up his clear understanding with facts. 🙂 When in fact I did not claim that Israel is religious country. I said > [@newcomer](#): > > a country where extreme religious right holds the power And now, for some of them facts – Right-wing parties in 2009 elections: Likud 9%, Shas 16% and Yisrael Beiteinu 9%. The differences are in name only. That`s 34% – one third. Therefore, right-wing government. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-something-happened-in-israel-lately/570610.md?page=4)