# Has the board turned into a bigot magnet? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 31, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076 "2003-07-31T06:15:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/101 "2003-08-01T18:59:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\*[Here is about 3,000 more targets for your crusade against the use of the words “gay lifestyle.”](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22gay+lifestyle%22+magazine%22) > > Seems like pretty common usage in many gay publications worldwide. Good luck to you with that, **Mockingbird**. I’ve tried to be as civil as possible here, presenting my points without resorting to personal insults. Your Nelson Mandella comment in response was pretty harsh. In fact, it has assured that you and I will have no further interaction. I’m sure that you will see this as no great loss, but for whatever little it is worth to you, you could probably achieve much more progress through dialogue and debate if you were to reign in the excessive hostility and bitterness. > > Good luck to you, and I really mean that. > > 1. \*\* 1. This is the pit, and it is a pit thread on the points touched on in the OP. 2. I am thrilled there will no further interaction because you have shown yourself to be a conservative pig bastard(I mean conservative in the bad way - not all conservatives are bad or pig bastards) with some seriously repressive and controlling ideologies. 3. Excessive hostility? [Bugs Bunny] He don’t know me vewwy well, do he? [/Bugs Bunny] Good clue to you, which I also really mean. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/102 "2003-08-01T19:01:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*i brought this up when i was branded a bigot for being opposed to dancing on Strom Thurmond’s grave. It didn’t help, because some people are too short sighted to see when they are burning down bridges instead of building them up. \*\* And some people are far too absorbed in telling others how they should feel and comport themselves. ---
**Author:** ![andymurph64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@andymurph64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andymurph64)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/103 "2003-08-01T19:07:37Z")
Probably has to do with the new gay-based reality TV shows on now. ---
**Author:** ![hilltopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@hilltopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hilltopper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/104 "2003-08-01T19:23:33Z")
You better smile when you say that! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/105 "2003-08-01T19:38:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*And some people are far too absorbed in telling others how they should feel and comport themselves. \*\* Even if that is true, it doesn’t make **Tars** a bigot. But wait, I forgot: this is **Mockingbird** we’re dealing with, for whom even the slightest disagreement calls for the “bigot” label. ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/106 "2003-08-01T19:53:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsgoddess \* > \*\* > > And since I reject the notion that gay persons are choosing to be gay, and are therefore choosing to behave in “gay” ways, then I reject the notion of a “gay lifestyle.” > > Julie \*\* The thing is, behaving in gay ways is a choice. Behaving in hetero ways is a choice. That’s because its behavior, and unless we’re insane, we generally make choices on ways we are going to behave during the day. So when I think “gay lifestyle”, I think of all kinds of things that people would do that show their love for people of the same gender. Fixing dinner, having a nice chat on the phone, making love…all kinds of stuff. And they don’t do it because they can’t help themselves…they do it because its a choice that makes them happy, and it makes the people they love happy. And what the hell is wrong with that? Hetero people make the same sorts of choices. Is there any difference between the two statements: a) “I’m gay” and b)“I’m happiest when I behave in ways that show my love for someone of the same gender”? Today, I don’t see any difference. I’m just trying to understand points of view here, it could be that my definitions are screwed up. ---
**Author:** ![hilltopper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@hilltopper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hilltopper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/107 "2003-08-01T20:06:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*Even if that is true, it doesn’t make **Tars** a bigot. > > But wait, I forgot: this is **Mockingbird** we’re dealing with, for whom even the slightest disagreement calls for the “bigot” label. \*\* Ohhh! Thanks DCU, oh ye of 3000+ posts. It starting to come into perspective now. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/108 "2003-08-01T20:19:15Z")
> [@](#): > > HEY, I’M NOT ATTRACTED TO EITHER GENDER AND YOU DON’T SEE ME BEING ALL PROUD OF IT. That loud “phew” you hear is everyone of all genders breathing enormous simultaneous sighs of relief. It does appear that the dip in support is a [transitory](http://www.365gay.com/NewsContent/080103marriagePoll.htm) thing, though. > [@](#): > > The Human Rights Campaign released data from a new bi-partisan poll today conducted by the Democratic polling firm of Peter D. Hart Research Associates and the Republican firm American Viewpoint, showing that 63 percent of registered voters support or would accept that gays and lesbians receive the same rights and protections as other Americans. > > The Hart/American Viewpoint Poll is in accordance with another poll released today by the Wall Street Journal and NBC News showing that 53 percent of the country favors allowing gay and lesbian couples to enter into legal agreements with each other that are not marriages, but that would give them many of the same legal and financial relationships as married couples. > > The Hart/American Viewpoint poll also showed that 50 percent of registered voters support or accept granting civil marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples with the same rights, responsibilities and protections given to other married couples, as long as religious institutions do not have to recognize or perform these marriages. Forty-seven percent oppose. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/109 "2003-08-01T20:23:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*And some people are far too absorbed in telling others how they should feel and comport themselves. \*\* Yes, like people who think everyone should be dancing in the streets when certain people die, otherwise they must be shouted down. I’ve said it before and will say it again, you hurt your cause more than you help it with said actions. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/110 "2003-08-01T20:24:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsgoddess \* > \*\*“Lifestyle” to me implies choice. > > To say that one is gay and therefore is living a “gay lifestyle” implies, to me, that the person is choosing to behave and live in certain ways. > > So, while I don’t automatically think “bigot” when I see “gay lifestyle,” the question is definitely raised in my pointy head. > \*\* Ditto. And while I realize that not everyone who think that homosexuality is a choice is bigoted, that belief certainly makes it easier to be so, and thus I become more wary of that person. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/111 "2003-08-01T20:34:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*Yes, like people who think everyone should be dancing in the streets when certain people die, otherwise they must be shouted down. I’ve said it before and will say it again, you hurt your cause more than you help it with said actions. \*\* Here’s a reality check for you: you were the one who came in, criticized, and then kept it up and wouldn’t let it die, telling gobear, Esprix, Otto, and myself as well as others what terrible people we were. Speaking solely for myself: I couldn’t care less what you “think” of me. Your delusions of persecution are facinating but in the end, quite pointless and sad. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/112 "2003-08-01T20:55:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*Speaking solely for myself: I couldn’t care less what you “think” of me. Your delusions of persecution are facinating but in the end, quite pointless and sad. \*\* Your delusions of persecution are nowhere near fascinating. Your approach to opening peoples’ minds, however, is, if not fascinating, then unique. Definitely unique. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/113 "2003-08-01T21:28:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ouisey \* > \*\*So when I think “gay lifestyle”, I think of all kinds of things that people would do that show their love for people of the same gender. Fixing dinner, having a nice chat on the phone, making love…all kinds of stuff. And they don’t do it because they can’t help themselves…they do it because its a choice that makes them happy, and it makes the people they love happy. And what the hell is wrong with that? Hetero people make the same sorts of choices. \*\* Hetero people make the same choices, not the same sorts of choices. If a “gay lifestyle” is completely indistinguishable from a “straight lifestyle,” then what are we defining with the term? Julie ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/114 "2003-08-01T22:31:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*Here’s a reality check for you: you were the one who came in, criticized, and then kept it up and wouldn’t let it die, telling gobear, Esprix, Otto, and myself as well as others what terrible people we were. \*\* Your self-delusion is positively adorable. [Here is the thread in question](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=193742). I leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine whether you or **Tars** were more guilty of “telling others what terrible people they are.” ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/115 "2003-08-01T22:57:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*Your self-delusion is positively adorable. [Here is the thread in question](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=193742). I leave it as an exercise to the reader to determine whether you or **Tars** were more guilty of “telling others what terrible people they are.” \*\* You hijacked that thread and drove your point so far through the ground that it left the fucking planet. You plan on repeating your onslaught here? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ccd318/32.png) [@John\_Kentzel-Griffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Kentzel-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/116 "2003-08-02T00:39:21Z")
While Pat Robertson and his ilk put down those living in the gay lifestyle, they also speak of the Christian lifestyle. It’s gay they put a negative connotation on, not lifestyle. Would you feel better if they said queers or Sodomites? You have, after all, taken back the terms. Considering how they look upon us, I think they should be given a little credit for using gay lifestyle rather than more bigoted alternatives. I don’t use queer very often. On the rare occasions that I have, it is always when I am sure the audience is gay or at least gay friendly. Never in a public forum. I have not expressed my opinion on the word Sodomite on this board before now. But since you brought it up, no I don’t like it. I don’t feel comfortable with it. I have said nothing about it, because I think those who feel comfortable with it should feel free to use the word. But I would never use the word Sodomite or queer on a publicly accessible website. I realize that you and others take offense at the use of the phrase gay lifestyle. I’m not particularly fond of the term myself. I wish there were a better term in common usage, but there is not. Condemn the use of choice and mental illness to refer to gays. Fight the good fight, but please don’t alienate potential allies. Save your righteous indignation for real offenses. **dalovindj** provided you with a Google search of webpages that use the phrase gay lifestyle. Did you take a look? They are mostly gay. Any comments? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by \*\*\*dalovindj \*\* > > [F]or whatever little it is worth to you, you could probably achieve much more progress through dialogue and debate if you were to reign in the excessive hostility and bitterness. It doesn’t look like that’s gonna happen. Sad though. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/117 "2003-08-02T01:37:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrMatrix \* > \*\*Considering how they look upon us, I think they should be given a little credit for using gay lifestyle rather than more bigoted alternatives. > > I realize that you and others take offense at the use of the phrase gay lifestyle. I’m not particularly fond of the term myself. I wish there were a better term in common usage, but there is not. > > \*\* I don’t see DCU, Tars, and DJ as allies, or even desiring to be allies. I am not the only one who thinks that lifestyle is a way to condesend and patronize the lives and relationships of gays. There doesn’t NEED to be a term, because the only thing that is different is who the partner is. It is an artificial distinction, and not one that is kind or tolerable. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/118 "2003-08-02T01:59:07Z")
**Mockingbird** , my friend, I’m going to have to disagree with you, and I ask you to accept my discussion as a friend who is trying to make some sense out of less-than-ideal language choices, not as someone putting anyone down. When I was a moderator (they didn’t use the term, but that was the function) on PC-Link, the ancestor to AOL, back in 1989, the gay membership assembled in chatrooms in the People Connection that were usually identified as “Alternative Lifestyles.” A “lifestyle” is a handy phrase for “how you live your life, the things that interest and matter to you, what you do in the course of a typical day.” It’s not necessarily an offensive term. What I, and I think anyone who cares anything about any gay person, finds offensive is the term “ **the** gay lifestyle,” as if every one of you is doing the bar scene, as many one-night stands as possible, recruiting children to your nefarious doings whenever possible – you know the drill! :rolleyes: **Homebrew** ’s “gay lifestyle” probably includes taking his kid to the park or the beach. **Gobear** mentioned some of the gentle, everyday things he and his partner do for each other in a recent post. **Priam** or somebody opened an IMHO thread about what gay members here do in their fabulous gay lifestyles. Personally, I think the term’s so nebulous as to be worthless, but I can see people using it with no intent to offend, as well as clear examples of the opposite. As for **Dewey** , you mistake his commitment to a particular school of legal reasoning for bigotry. And I can guarantee that it is not. He is being professionally ethical as he understands his commitment to the law to call for. That I disagree with his stance on the issues at hand in no way minimizes the respect I have for him for standing by them. Quite simply, he would say, “If Congress passed a law decreeing that gay men and women could marry as they chose, then there would be a legal right established, which nobody could block. Or if a ‘right to privacy’ amendment were adopted, gay men’s right to choose what they do in private would be protected under it. But I cannot find any such right written in the constitution, even construing the specific things it does guarantee somewhat broadly, and therefore, I cannot in good conscience say that there is indeed a constitutional right there.” And he’s said outright that he personally is in favor of laws protecting the rights of gay men. But you or I cannot ask him to abnegate his moral commitment to the school of construing law to which he holds allegiance. I hope you won’t be offended by this – I know that it’s semantics to me, but the difference between freedom and bigotry to you. But I would hope that you can see how people _can_ differ somewhat on details while still being supportive of your fight for your rights. And, lest I be misunderstood, let me formally renew my commitment to fight alongside you for what you deserve as American citizens, which the rest of us already enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/119 "2003-08-02T02:59:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mockingbird \* > \*\*You hijacked that thread and drove your point so far through the ground that it left the fucking planet. > You plan on repeating your onslaught here? \*\* In a thread started by you to discuss whether this board has become a “bigot magnet,” I hardly think pointing out that in past threads you have used the term “bigot” rather promiscuously (to put it mildly) constitutes a hijack. Indeed, I think it is right on topic. \*\* > [@](#): > > I don’t see DCU, Tars, and DJ as allies, or even desiring to be allies.\*\* Then you simply aren’t paying attention. (And thank you for the kind words, **Polycarp** – you’ve summed my position on that particular point nicely.) ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2003, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076/120 "2003-08-02T14:12:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, like people who think everyone should be dancing in the streets when certain people die, otherwise they must be shouted down. I’ve said it before and will say it again, you hurt your cause more than you help it with said actions. Just for the record, **Tars** , commenting on a message board is not “dancing in the streets.” It’s just, you know, commenting on a message board that it was high time Strom went to his eternal reward. Please stop lying about “dancing in the streets” “dancing on his grave” and other bullshit exaggerations. And **Tars** viewing Strom as an innocent man unfairly maligned by the evil gay lobby brands him as a bigot, just as I view all the “the Holocaust never happened” folks as bigots, even if they say nothing negative about Jews themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-board-turned-into-a-bigot-magnet/192076.md?page=7)