# Has the British Prime Minister grown a pair? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229 "2011-02-05T00:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/21 "2011-02-06T12:05:29Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > … It is interesting that he is going to give this speech in Europe, where the anti-jihad movement is spreading. … Anti Jihad movement? Jaysus. Keep your posting to Canada. > [@amanset](#): > > … > > Bear in mind also that he is only in power due to a coalition that has alienated half the supporters of his partners in the coalition. And there are those people who view Thatcher as having saved the country from the looney Left, but that’s neither here nor there. Labour wore out its welcome among the non-ideological and regrettably spent what should have been saved in its later years. I salute Labour for abandoning the looney Left and could vote for them if they learn their lessons about spending, but am damned happy to have Tories back in for a bit. But none of this has the least to do with Magiver politics, as far as I can tell about his politics that seem rather more BN than anything. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/22 "2011-02-06T16:59:52Z")
The whole multiculturalism concept is stupid from the start: westerners should accept all cultures, even those cultures who reject accepting other cultures. So if you are western and don’t accept an influx of people whose culture think it’s OK to kill people that make fun of their prophet you are bad. And of course multiculturalism only applies to the west because the principal of no absolute morality means it is not OK to criticize eastern cultures that reject multiculturalism. Not sure why this is so controversial. If you want to move to the US or UK you should be willing to accept basic values such as the equality of women, free speech, and the right of other religions to exist. If not, stay home or go someplace else that accepts your values like Saudi Arabia or Vatican City. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/23 "2011-02-06T17:44:02Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Why? It sounds to me that you are going by your views and how anything but your view is somehow wrong. Newsflash, not everyone has the same views as you. I was born in 1974 and grew up under Thatcher, as of such it will be a cold day in hell before I ever vote Tory. I assure you that there are many like me, which is one reason why the Tories performed so badly in the election despite such dissatisfaction with Labour. > > Bear in mind also that he is only in power due to a coalition that has alienated half the supporters of his partners in the coalition. travel the tube often? ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/24 "2011-02-06T17:49:51Z")
Er, what’s the tube got to do with the question? ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/25 "2011-02-06T18:20:22Z")
It should also be noted that the British PM gave the speech in Europe on the same day that the Engish Defence League held a large demo in Luton, which was attended by thousands of British citizens, including blacks, gays, asians, etc. as well as representativess of the Australian, Dutch, German and French Defence Leagues that have been founded along the same lines as the EDL. He was heavily criticized for giving his speech on the same day, but one wonders if it was an accident. BTW, you can see EDL Leader Tommy Robinson’s speech at [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSyw0tpVGN4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSyw0tpVGN4) Tell me at what point this alleged ‘racist’ makes racist statements. I must have missed them. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/26 "2011-02-06T18:38:03Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Anti Jihad movement? > > Jaysus. > > Keep your posting to Canada. The British PM has mirrored the same warning of multiculturalism given by the German PM as well as the French President. Call it what you want. This is in contrast to a US President who went on a mid-East tour looking for love. He got nothing for it. The European heads of state are right. If you don’t the culture of your host country then you’re not welcome. > [@wmfellows](#): > > But none of this has the least to do with Magiver politics, as far as I can tell about his politics that seem rather more BN than anything. I was brought up to believe in a melting pot society. If you don’t like my country’s culture then don’t immigrate to it. We are a nation of nothing BUT immigrants but our policy of inviting all is not an invitation to be shit on. If you want to be an island unto yourselves then you’re not welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/27 "2011-02-06T18:46:12Z")
> [@Crusoe](#): > > Er, what’s the tube got to do with the question? That’s where you’ll most likely realize the effects of jihad and the failure of politically correct multiculturalism. The UK should be a nation where immigrants want to be a part of English culture and not an island of warring ideologies. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/28 "2011-02-06T18:47:10Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > The whole multiculturalism concept is stupid from the start: westerners should accept all cultures, even those cultures who reject accepting other cultures. So if you are western and don’t accept an influx of people whose culture think it’s OK to kill people that make fun of their prophet you are bad. And of course multiculturalism only applies to the west because the principal of no absolute morality means it is not OK to criticize eastern cultures that reject multiculturalism. Nice strawman you’ve got there. Shame if anything should happen to it. > [@](#): > > Not sure why this is so controversial. If you want to move to the US or UK you should be willing to accept basic values such as the equality of women, free speech, and the right of other religions to exist. If not, stay home or go someplace else that accepts your values like Saudi Arabia or Vatican City. There is this thing called “law” that already applies to all of your examples in this paragraph. Even in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/29 "2011-02-06T18:48:29Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > It should also be noted that the British PM gave the speech in Europe on the same day that the Engish Defence League held a large demo in Luton, which was attended by thousands of British citizens, including blacks, gays, asians, etc. as well as representativess of the Australian, Dutch, German and French Defence Leagues that have been founded along the same lines as the EDL. There’s a Dutch Defense League? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/30 "2011-02-06T18:51:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That’s where you’ll most likely realize the effects of jihad and the failure of politically correct multiculturalism. The UK should be a nation where immigrants want to be a part of English culture and not an island of warring ideologies. I get the tube every day and I still have no idea what you’re talking about, I’m afraid. I see people of many nationalities and ethnicities, but nothing that leads me to conclude either way on whether multiculturalism is working. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/31 "2011-02-06T18:56:33Z")
> [@Crusoe](#): > > I get the tube every day and I still have no idea what you’re talking about, I’m afraid. I see people of many nationalities and ethnicities, but nothing that leads me to conclude either way on whether multiculturalism is working. 7/7 ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/32 "2011-02-06T18:57:01Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > It should also be noted that the British PM gave the speech in Europe on the same day that the Engish Defence League held a large demo in Luton, which was attended by thousands of British citizens, including blacks, gays, asians, etc. as well as representativess of the Australian, Dutch, German and French Defence Leagues that have been founded along the same lines as the EDL. > > He was heavily criticized for giving his speech on the same day, but one wonders if it was an accident. BTW, you can see EDL Leader Tommy Robinson’s speech at [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSyw0tpVGN4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSyw0tpVGN4) > > Tell me at what point this alleged ‘racist’ makes racist statements. I must have missed them. What a jolly bunch of fellows those EDL-ers are:rolleyes: Tommy Robinson of course is not his real name, his real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. The reason he changed it is to hide his previous connection with the BNP (British National Party) and the fact he has served prison time in the last few years for violent offences. If you don’t think at the very least the EDL contain a signifcant racist and violent elements, then you’re just ignorant of the reality of this group. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/33 "2011-02-06T19:00:21Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > There is this thing called “law” that already applies to all of your examples in this paragraph. Even in the UK. And the Prime Minister said that if you don’t respect those laws and British culture then don’t immigrate. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/34 "2011-02-06T19:03:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > 7/7 Ah, okay. You could have made your point a bit more clearly. Based on my regular commute, there’s nothing I’d call evidence of a lasting failure of multiculturalism on the tube these days. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/35 "2011-02-06T19:25:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And the Prime Minister said that if you don’t respect those laws and British culture then don’t immigrate. And he’s right. But “multiculturalism” does not mean the opposite of that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/36 "2011-02-06T19:37:53Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I assure you that there are many like me, which is one reason why the Tories performed so badly in the election despite such dissatisfaction with Labour. It sounds like **none** of the big three parties in the UK are popular, and when they win, they mostly win on the lesser-of-two-evils vote. Why is that? What would be an alternative the people could really get behind? ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/37 "2011-02-06T19:44:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It sounds like **none** of the big three parties in the UK are popular, and when they win, they mostly win on the lesser-of-two-evils vote. Why is that? What would be an alternative the people could really get behind? Right now they’ve all done things to make themselves unpopular. That said right now I’d have Labour as a shoe-in for the next General Election. This is mainly because I expect Lib Dem voters to defect to Labour in their droves and I think the Conservatives will struggle trying to convince the middle ground that they’ve done a good job or their austerity measures have been completely driven by pragmaticism. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/38 "2011-02-06T19:49:17Z")
Committed Labour voters won’t consider voting Conservative, committed Conservative voters won’t consider voting Labour. The Liberal Democrats weren’t seen as credible because they’d never been in power. Now that they are in power, sort of, they appear to have turned into Conservatives Lite, and probably crippled their chances of getting the not-Conservative-or-Labour vote for years. The Greens, BNP, Respect and others are seen as either one-policy-ponies or not credible. So, Conservative and Labour governments will be unpopular because there’s plenty of people to blame them for their post-war performances, and nobody else is credible enough because they’ve never been in power (a vicious circle). That said, whoever won the last election was going to get the poisoned chalice of dealing with the economic downturn. As has been said, right now Labour would probably win based on them not being the party freshest in the memory to cut services and raise taxes (well, VAT). ---
**Author:** ![Chouan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@Chouan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chouan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/39 "2011-02-06T20:19:16Z")
Back when India was still a part of the British Empire, the native population of Hindus still wanted to burn widows alive on the funeral pyres of their dead husbands. A British general told them that he wouldn’t allow that anymore, because it was murder. “But it’s a part of our cultural traditions” the natives said. “We’ve done this for hundreds of years.” So the British general, said “OK, then let me introduce you to one of our British cultural traditions. When someone kills a woman, we hang that person. You can keep building your funeral pyres, but right next to them we will build our gallows. So you can keep practicing your culture, and we will practice ours!” Western civilization is in the same position today as that British general in India in the 1800s. We can look the other way when other cultures commit savage and barbaric acts and say it’s OK, they’re just expressing their culture, we have to tolerate it. Or we can say NO: it’s not OK to burn widows alive. It’s NOT OK to mutilate little girls and call it “female circumcision”, it’s NOT OK to stone a woman to death because she was raped and the sharia court says under Islamic law she’s guilty of adultery. It’s good to see the British prime minister is taking a stand against the immigrants who are trying to replace British culture with radical Islam. Other European leaders need to follow his lead, stop appeasing “multiculturalists” and recognize evil for what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/40 "2011-02-06T20:30:03Z")
Slightly off topic bu I’d like to return again to the idea of non-generational immigration. If you have a group immigrate to a Western country in large numbers then you often have problems. I you allow that group to continue to import thieir fellow country men then they will remain in their ghettos and are unlikely to integrate. If, however, you limit immigration from that group then their kids or their kids-kids will be as.integrated and whiny as any other. That’s how multiculturalism can work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229.md?page=3)