# Has the British Prime Minister grown a pair? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229 "2011-02-05T00:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/61 "2011-02-07T04:38:43Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > And demand that driver’s licenses pictures can be done with a veil covering your face and that you not be subject to body searches in the airport. Considering the fact that women in Muslim countries, even Saudi Arabia aren’t allowed to be veiled for passport photos I doubt the first is something you have to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/62 "2011-02-07T07:00:12Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Considering the fact that women in Muslim countries, even Saudi Arabia aren’t allowed to be veiled for passport photos I doubt the first is something you have to worry about. But some are [trying](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=69c_1217305657). ETA: And please tell me if the woman in this [photo](http://www.strangepersons.com/content/item/155117.html)matches her ID? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/63 "2011-02-07T10:58:36Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > It should also be noted that the British PM gave the speech in Europe on the same day that the Engish Defence League held a large demo in Luton, which was attended by thousands of British citizens, including blacks, gays, asians, etc. as well as representativess of the Australian, Dutch, German and French Defence Leagues that have been founded along the same lines as the EDL. > > He was heavily criticized for giving his speech on the same day, but one wonders if it was an accident. BTW, you can see EDL Leader Tommy Robinson’s speech at [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSyw0tpVGN4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSyw0tpVGN4) > > Tell me at what point this alleged ‘racist’ makes racist statements. I must have missed them. [BBC Report](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-12372713) > [@](#): > > About 1,500 EDL supporters and 1,000 UAF protesters were involved in the protests. ‘Thousands’ indeed. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/64 "2011-02-07T11:12:06Z")
[Sharia court in UK in action](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7238890.stm) > [@](#): > > Since opening in 1982, the Islamic Sharia Council has given advice on everything from inheritance settlements to whether or not Muslim women are allowed to wear wigs. > > But the vast majority of their cases are to do with divorce, and in particular with releasing women from bad or forced Islamic marriages. > [@](#): > > These women in so-called “limping marriages” come to the Islamic Sharia Council who write to her husband and try to convince him to give her a divorce. If he refuses, after about three months they annul the marriage. > > Sheikh Sayeed, president of the council, is adamant these interpretations have nothing to do with the true message of Islam. > > He says they are a "tribal or traditional interpretation of Islam. Not incorrect interpretation of sharia - no interpretation of sharia Of course the workings of any adjudication system where there is a gender power imbalance needs monitoring. And there is undoubtedly a problem in the UK with unassimilating immigrants hostile to liberal values. But hysterical predictions of doom and wild polemical exaggerations aren’t going to help. I’m totally on board with Cameron’s speech, both in content and timing. Now he needs to take it further and stop funding religious schools of any ilk. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/65 "2011-02-07T15:11:15Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Of course the workings of any adjudication system where there is a gender power imbalance needs monitoring. > > And there is undoubtedly a problem in the UK with unassimilating immigrants hostile to liberal values. > > But hysterical predictions of doom and wild polemical exaggerations aren’t going to help. > > I’m totally on board with Cameron’s speech, both in content and timing. Now he needs to take it further and stop funding religious schools of any ilk. I’d echo all these views, particularly the final one - the state should not be funding faith schoools of any type. They make the problem worse not better. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/66 "2011-02-07T15:28:16Z")
OMG sharia courts are going so far as to offer _advice_?! What has the world come to? > [@sh1bu1](#): > > ETA: And please tell me if the woman in this [photo](http://www.strangepersons.com/content/item/155117.html)matches her ID? Even the most conservative veiler on Earth has no problem removing her veil in front of women. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/67 "2011-02-07T16:47:36Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > OMG sharia courts are going so far as to offer _advice_?! What has the world come to? > > Even the most conservative veiler on Earth has no problem removing her veil in front of women. Cool, we’ll just make sure every cop car has a woman in it to makes Muslim women happy and a male in it to make Orthodox men happy. personally I am offended by anyone mot dressed as a clown, so we’ll need to add one of them as well. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/68 "2011-02-07T17:30:10Z")
I’m faintly amused by the OP’s implication that upon election, the British Prime Minister inherits a set of official balls, or something. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/69 "2011-02-07T17:35:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m faintly amused by the OP’s implication that upon election, the British Prime Minister inherits a set of official balls, or something. They used to belong to Black Rod but he lost them in a power struggle between the mandarins and whips in the late 18th century. No idea what Thatcher did with them, earrings maybe? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/70 "2011-02-07T17:51:07Z")
I just saw Cameron on CNN last night insisting that Britain is still a world power and will be at the forefront, etc. It’s really rather sad. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/71 "2011-02-07T21:53:39Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > [BBC Report](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-12372713) > > ‘Thousands’ indeed. The BBC constantly low-balls the EDL numbers at any demonstrartion. Other media have come up with 2000 or 3000. A number of people used freezes on Youtube videos to do rough headcounts and everyone comes up with a number between 2000 and 3000. I am certain the BBC has a poklicy of playing down EDL numbers and playing up UAF numbers. There were more than 20 coaches which alone makes more than 800 people. This is not counting Lutonians and people who came by train, by car, etc. It IS a smaller turnout than I think the EDL had hoped for. But it was WAYYYY more than 1500. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/72 "2011-02-07T22:10:10Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Even the most conservative veiler on Earth has no problem removing her veil in front of women. Say this woman is speeding. So what happens when the cop who pulls her over to check her ID is a man? Or what if a flight comes in late at night and only male Customs Inspectors are on duty at the airport that night? Do citizens now get to specify the gender of the public servant who will serve them? What if sonmeone refuses to be served by a black or a Jew? Do we put one cop of each gender in every patrol car and one Customs Officer of each gender at Customs? And what do we do when male Muslims are EMPLOYED as cops and customs officers, but refuse to take orders from a female or refuse to share a squad car with them? In case you think I am making this up, there were two cases of male Muslims in Canada in the last year who worked for the federal public service and refuised to report to a female supervisor. They even took their case to the Human Rights Tribunal claiming their religious rights were being infringed. Don’t worry, these people know how to play the discrimination card when they get into our western democracies! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/73 "2011-02-07T22:15:28Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > And what do we do when male Muslims are EMPLOYED as cops and customs officers, but refuse to take orders from a female or refuse to share a squad car with them? In case you think I am making this up, there were two cases of male Muslims in Canada in the last year who worked for the federal public service and refuised to report to a female supervisor. They even took their case to the Human Rights Tribunal claiming their religious rights were being infringed. We do have Muslim males who work as police officers over here and I’m sure the case is the same in the UK. If they refused to take orders from female superiors then they’d wind up being disciplined. That’s what happens to male police officers who refuse to take orders from female police officers. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/74 "2011-02-07T22:26:11Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > We do have Muslim males who work as police officers over here and I’m sure the case is the same in the UK. > > If they refused to take orders from female superiors then they’d wind up being disciplined. > > That’s what happens to male police officers who refuse to take orders from female police officers. I don’t have all the facts of the case that took place here in Canada, but I believe the Human Rights Commission came up with some total surrender in which they “negotiated a settlement” where the two men do not have to work under female supervisors and can still keep their jobs in the public service. The backlash is building in this country too, every time we see a case of this kind. And you have not answered the question, what heppens when there are just two men in the squad car that pulls over the Muslima in a veil? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/75 "2011-02-07T22:38:21Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > Say this woman is speeding. So what happens when the cop who pulls her over to check her ID is a man? Or what if a flight comes in late at night and only male Customs Inspectors are on duty at the airport that night? > > Do citizens now get to specify the gender of the public servant who will serve them? What if sonmeone refuses to be served by a black or a Jew? > > Do we put one cop of each gender in every patrol car and one Customs Officer of each gender at Customs? > > And what do we do when male Muslims are EMPLOYED as cops and customs officers, but refuse to take orders from a female or refuse to share a squad car with them? In case you think I am making this up, there were two cases of male Muslims in Canada in the last year who worked for the federal public service and refuised to report to a female supervisor. They even took their case to the Human Rights Tribunal claiming their religious rights were being infringed. > > Don’t worry, these people know how to play the discrimination card when they get into our western democracies! “These people,” huh? Classy. If someone refuses to present identification at a traffic stop, I believe it’s standard to take them down to the station until their identity can be established. They may face some charges. Of course, this is unlikely to come up because the number of women covering their entire face is vanishing rare. For example, France’s much-discussed ban on the burka and niqab affected 2,000 women. Only a tiny subset of Muslim women wear any sort of face covering. I’d be surprised if there are not already requirements to keep both genders on staff for airport security. It’s not just Muslim women who object to being felt up by strange men. I travel a lot, and I can’t remember ever getting a pat down from a man anywhere in the world. If you refuse to recognize your supervisor’s orders or have religious requirements that cannot be accommodated without unreasonable expense, you are SOL…just like a Orthodox Jew is not going to get a job as the Saturday morning meter maid. You act like (the small subset of) Muslims who do have unusual requirements are the only people on this planet who have special requests. We manage to find a way to let the Amish drive their buggies and opt out of high school without all of society collapsing. We have tools in place to deal with this stuff. Calm down a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/76 "2011-02-07T22:45:48Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > The BBC constantly low-balls the EDL numbers at any demonstrartion. Other media have come up with 2000 or 3000. A number of people used freezes on Youtube videos to do rough headcounts and everyone comes up with a number between 2000 and 3000. I am certain the BBC has a poklicy of playing down EDL numbers and playing up UAF numbers. “Your citation disagrees with me. Therefore, I will make up a conspiracy theory to disprove it.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/77 "2011-02-07T22:55:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m faintly amused by the OP’s implication that upon election, the British Prime Minister inherits a set of official balls, or something. No, he gets an _au pair._ Whether he has kids or not. Nobody remembers why. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/78 "2011-02-07T23:14:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, he gets an _au pair._ Whether he has kids or not. Nobody remembers why. He’s not the Prime Minister, he’s a very naughty boy. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/79 "2011-02-07T23:23:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Your citation disagrees with me. Therefore, I will make up a conspiracy theory to disprove it.” No, I am just saying I saw higher estimates from other media. 1500 is the very, very minimum it could possibly have been, and most people who were there doubt it was that low. But for some reason the BBC always goes for the lowest estimate. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229/80 "2011-02-07T23:53:32Z")
> [@Valteron](#): > > No, I am just saying I saw higher estimates from other media. 1500 is the very, very minimum it could possibly have been, and most people who were there doubt it was that low. But for some reason the BBC always goes for the lowest estimate. Here is raw footage of the Luton Demo. I realize exact crowd sizes are always hard to estimate but to me, this certyainly looks like fore than 1500. It is 12 minutes long, but look at the segment in the 6 to 8 minutes especially. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGEedSiAIP0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGEedSiAIP0) Here is another video shot by what appears to be non-EDL. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGEedSiAIP0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGEedSiAIP0) People who did freeze-frames and counted heads at several spots in the video counted FAR more than 1500. 2000 to 3000 is the most likely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-british-prime-minister-grown-a-pair/570229.md?page=5)