# Has the Catholic Church said it's okay to vote for Kerry? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 8, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260 "2004-10-08T20:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/21 "2004-10-09T04:33:55Z")
> [@Bob55](#): > > How come this doesn’t apply to the churches here in Memphis that have local candidates speak during sermons, or churches in Orlando that tell African-Americans if they vote Republican they’ll go to hell? Both occur. But probably the fact that African-American churches are 90% Democrat is the reason, whereas Catholics are probably more 50/50. Making a politcal statement will probably offend more people. More than likely, candidates can speak to a congregation because they’re being asked to religiously witness rather than campaign. Is this a fuzzy distinction? Yes. But candidates from both sides do it – Bush has done it a lot. Alternatively, a congregation can ask both candidates to speak, but if only one shows up… it’s not their fault. Is this breaking the spirit of the rules which say that any political forum in such a church must be non-partisan? Yes. But it happens to both parties. Are there cases in which a minister blatantly breaks the IRS rules and encourages his or her congregation to vote for a particular candidate or party? Yes. A lot. But for every Southern Black congregation that is told to vote Kerry/Democrat there is a MidWestern White evangelical congregation being told to vote Bush/Republican. The IRS does not have the means to chase after every hundred-family congregation where the rules are broken. However, the TV evangelists and the big players, like the RCC are watched closely. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/22 "2004-10-09T04:37:58Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > The Church is a lot less monolithic in its political tone than non-Catholics seem to think. I remember two churches a couple of miles apart where I grew up (Reston and Herndon, VA) that were as different as night and day in this regard (although both sermonized against abortion). > > Catholics really, really don’t vote as a bloc, or buy as one or think as one. Well, yes and no. Catholics who attend Mass every week tend to be more conservative than those who don’t, and do display bloc-like patterns in voting. However, only 20-30% of Catholics attend Mass every week, and un-bloc the whole. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/23 "2004-10-09T04:44:32Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > Well, yes and no. Catholics who attend Mass every week tend to be more conservative than those who don’t, and do display bloc-like patterns in voting. However, only 20-30% of Catholics attend Mass every week, and un-bloc the whole. > > Peace. Well, the Catholics who went to mass every week in Reston tended to vote a lot differently than the ones who went to mass every week in Herndon. Reston’s parish (The church itself looked like a ski lodge) came from a “folk gospel” tradition, while Herndon’s was much more traditional and conservative (as was their building’s 1940s architecture). Really, it varies a lot within the Faith. ---
**Author:** ![stockton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@stockton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stockton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/24 "2004-10-09T04:54:29Z")
I’m NOT Catholic - where can I find someone else to tell me how to vote? ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/25 "2004-10-09T13:23:44Z")
> [@stockton](#): > > I’m NOT Catholic - where can I find someone else to tell me how to vote? Try GD right here at SDMB. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/26 "2004-10-09T18:14:44Z")
The church has a lot of opinions and such, but will not officially TELL people how to vote. Just because a local priest or bishop says something, does not make it Church Doctrine. The official line so far is, vote your conscience. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/27 "2004-10-11T16:13:25Z")
> [@Bob55](#): > > How come this doesn’t apply to the churches here in Memphis that have local candidates speak during sermons, or churches in Orlando that tell African-Americans if they vote Republican they’ll go to hell? Both occur. But probably the fact that African-American churches are 90% Democrat is the reason, whereas Catholics are probably more 50/50. Making a politcal statement will probably offend more people. Well, I’m not in Memphis, so I can’t hear what’s being said in any of these churches. Have you been to all of them to hear what’s being said, or is this FOAF stuff? And if they are an IRS Tax-exempt organization, and they endorse a specific candidate by name or party, and someone turns them in, and the IRS cares enough to investigate, then it will result in a loss of tax-exempt status. Do you see what I’m getting at here? ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/28 "2004-10-11T17:45:56Z")
> [@Padeye](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong but only the Pope can speak for the whole Roman Catholic church. “I’m the Pope and I approve of this ad.” ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/29 "2004-10-11T18:09:06Z")
At church yesterday, I picked up a copy of this letter from the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (Warning - PDF file - 2 pages): [The Challenge of Faithful Citizenship - A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility](http://www.usccb.org/publishing/BulletinInsert.pdf) Again, it states to vote your moral conscience based on Catholic teachings. Neither Kerry or Bush are clear cut electable candidates based on some of the questions raised on page 2. We have been asked not to have just a narrow view (focused on one topic), but to look at the broader view based on how the candidates can best accomplish the most concerns brought up by the church as a whole. As for regular Church going Catholics being more conservative than non-regular Church going Catholics, I just don’t see that. Credible cite, anyone? Also, here are the [guidelines](http://www.usccb.org/ogc/guidelines.htm) that the Catholic Church follows when observing IRS guidelines. An individual may have an opinion, but must use private funds to express that opinion. [Cite.](http://www.usccb.org/ogc/guidelines.htm#9) ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/30 "2004-10-11T23:02:43Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > As for regular Church going Catholics being more conservative than non-regular Church going Catholics, I just don’t see that. Credible cite, anyone? > **[Catholic voting bloc difficult to pin down](https://www.chron.com/news/nation-world/article/Catholic-voting-bloc-difficult-to-pin-down-1959010.php)** > > Sen. John Kerry is having trouble wooing fellow Roman Catholics in Iowa and Wisconsin.... ---
**Author:** ![mbacko1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@mbacko1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbacko1)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/31 "2004-10-12T17:09:09Z")
> [@stockton](#): > > I’m NOT Catholic - where can I find someone else to tell me how to vote? National Education Association (NEC) tries to tell teachers how to vote. You could ask them. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mbacko1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@mbacko1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbacko1)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/32 "2004-10-12T17:15:39Z")
> [@stockton](#): > > I’m NOT Catholic - where can I find someone else to tell me how to vote? National Education Association (NEA) tries to tell teachers how to vote. You could ask them. 😉 That’s NEA :smack: ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/33 "2004-10-12T19:02:32Z")
Good article on this subject. > **[Group of Bishops Using Influence to Oppose Kerry (Published 2004)](https://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/12/politics/campaign/group-of-bishops-using-influence-to-oppose-kerry.html)** > > Group of bishops and like-minded Catholic groups are blanketing churches with guides identifying abortion, gay marriage and stem cell debate as among 'non-negotiable issues' in presidential campaign; although bishops stop short of telling Catholics... ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/34 "2004-10-12T19:25:38Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > After a considerable amount of confusion, the Roman Catholic archbishop of st. Louis put the issue this way. > > There are transcendent issues for Catholic voters: > > Abortion (except to save the life of the mother) > Euthanasia > Stem-cell research (using human embryos) > Same sex marriage > > These are transcendent issues because they are morally wrong in every circumstance. > > A Catholic should not vote for a candidate who favors any of these issues. If all the candidates for office favor some combination of these issues in some way, a Catholic should vote for the candidate with the most restrictive position. > > In other words, given the choice between a candidate who favors few restrictions on abortion and one who favors abortion only in the case of rape or incest, a Catholic should choose the latter. > > The archbishop did not specifically name any candidate for any office, although my guess is that the faithful know who he’s talking about. Are abortion, euthanasia, stell-cell research, and same-sex marriage really considered more immoral than the death penalty and unjust wars? If a strict Catholic focuses solely on those issues, of course she would vote Republican, but looking at the range of Church beliefs, one would lean towards Democrats. (Factoring in issues of social justice.) ---
**Author:** ![rfgdxm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c0e974/32.png) [@rfgdxm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rfgdxm)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/35 "2004-10-13T02:13:26Z")
> [@chula](#): > > Are abortion, euthanasia, stell-cell research, and same-sex marriage really considered more immoral than the death penalty and unjust wars? If a strict Catholic focuses solely on those issues, of course she would vote Republican, but looking at the range of Church beliefs, one would lean towards Democrats. (Factoring in issues of social justice.) Roman Catholicism definitely leans towards social programs aimed at helping to poor. The death penalty is also a very sticky issue. Given that Catholics see the death penalty as unjust killing, and that Republicans tend to favor the death penalty, when the issue is the sanctity of human life, which party to favor isn’t clear. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/36 "2004-10-13T03:39:22Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > Roman Catholicism definitely leans towards social programs aimed at helping to poor. The death penalty is also a very sticky issue. Given that Catholics see the death penalty as unjust killing, and that Republicans tend to favor the death penalty, when the issue is the sanctity of human life, which party to favor isn’t clear. Since this is GQ, what I’m wondering is whether the Catholic Church in the United States is really emphasizing the issues of abortion, stell-cell research, etc., while deemphasizing issues that are equally central to Church doctrine and happen to favor Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/37 "2004-10-13T05:37:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Since this is GQ, what I’m wondering is whether the Catholic Church in the United States is really emphasizing the issues of abortion, stell-cell research, etc., while deemphasizing issues that are equally central to Church doctrine and happen to favor Democrats. As frequently happens in discussions of “the Catholic Church,” this seems to presume a monolithic structure that rumbles along with a monolithic perspective and focus. The RCC is actually a pretty fractured place. You can find bishop Fabian Bruskewitz standing somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun and Bishop Thomas Gumbleton being called a commie sympathizer. The majority of the bishops (the only guys who currently get to “speak for” the church) holding a lot of contradictory positions on a lot of subjects. Certainly individual diocese may take a noticeably Left-leaning or Right-leaning stance (as set by the bishop), but it is difficult to accurately characterize “the church” as being pro-Republican or pro-Democrat. (And, as with many topics, one’s viewpoint can be swayed by one’s _own_ views, with people who are mad (or delighted) about any position in their local diocese feeling that the church is “clearly” leaning away from (or toward) one party or the other.) ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/38 "2004-10-13T11:53:48Z")
The Church doesn’t normally rank issues on importance, but the “real world” answer is that abortion is one of the most important issues, because innocent people (the unborn babies) are being killed. Wars are also big deals, for the similar reasons (innocent civilians). Stem cell research is wrong because the stem cells come from aborted fetuses. On the surface of it, same-sex marriage shouldn’t be on the same level as matters of life and death, but it’s currently a “hot button” issue, and gets a lot of play for that reason. The death penalty is a matter of life and death, and the Church is firmly against it, but most American Catholics aren’t too concerned about it, because the people who are being killed have been duly convicted of very serious crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/39 "2004-10-13T15:31:38Z")
> [@chula](#): > > Since this is GQ, what I’m wondering is whether the Catholic Church in the United States is really emphasizing the issues of abortion, stell-cell research, etc., while deemphasizing issues that are equally central to Church doctrine and happen to favor Democrats. The archbishop of St. Louis has told the Catholics in his jurisdiction that abortion, euthanasia, stem-cell research from human embryos and same-sex marriage are wrong _in every case, with no moral justification whatsoever._ War and even capital punishment can be justified in some rare circumstances, but since any support of euthanasia in any circumstance can not be justified, then a politician’s stance on that issue must transcend a stance on war. This is one of those areas where even though a given body says something (e.g., abortion) is wrong, there isn’t a church-wide definition of how far a person can go in supporting a pro-choice postion (while not doing anything directly involved in an abortion). Local bishops are filling that void with their own pronouncements. As can be seen by the posts in this thread, there is something to be said for monolithic doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260/40 "2004-10-13T16:23:30Z")
I couldn’t finish my previous post because I had to start working, so here goes In this election, both Bush and Kerry are on the wrong side of some important issues. Bush is wrong about the war and the death penalty (aside: has Kerry said anything about capital punishment one way or the other?), while Kerry is on the wrong side with abortion, stem cell research, and same-sex marriage. In this election, Catholics have to decide who the lesser evil is, and vote for him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-catholic-church-said-its-okay-to-vote-for-kerry/268260.md?page=3)