Has the Census Bureau contacted you?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

[QUOTE=DVsickgirlDV]
You think data is that simple collect? Ok, heres an example of why the Census Bureau would ask those questions. We ask how you get to work because it can say a lot about the socioeconomics of the area. Maybe the data returned is showing that people with higher incomes are less likely to use public transportation or car pooling. Or people with lower incomes are more reliant on public transportation… then we can create public programs to help solve this problem, such as create tax incentives for large corporations to encourage car pooling or public transportation subsidies… or we can create insurance programs for lower-income families to afford car insurance so they can go out and buy a car instead of soley relying on public transportation. (california has a program like this).

Pension info: Maybe the data shows us that many people of Hispanic origin do not have a pension or have any sort of retirement savings. Public programs can be geared then to address this problem, such as having financial planning advice printed in Spanish or have local schools in the area have meetings addressing the importance of financial planning and have financial planners come who are fluent in Spanish.

These are just a few examples of what the census data can do for you and your community. Seriously people

Yes, there can be people out there trying to commit fraud but for the most part, everything officially distributed by the Census Bureau is out for statisical data purposes only.. not to wiretap into you life (as if The Man isn’t doing that already).

.
[/QUOTE]
I get all that. But guess what…most of that information is obvious. You don’t need to delve into the details of millions of lives to determine that poor people take public transportation or that more people would take public trans if the busses had more routes and brought the people to where the jobs are. There are more general questions that I would consider useful. The personal stuff…well, we’re told constantly that the bad guys are out there stealing identities and whatnot. I would be very hesitant to hand this info over without being VERY sure that the recipient was who they said it was. It would take NOTHING to get this form, copy it, and alter it in order to get enough info to screw someone.

I don’t worry as much for younger folks, but older people are sitting ducks for this kind of scam and would never question the authenticity.

22

I’ve filled them out twice, I think. I really don’t understand the level of distrust either, since this is just aggregate data. It’s not hard to verify where the info is going.

23

I did them before, too. But back then, I didn’t have anything to lose. And sleazy scammers weren’t in the forefront the way they are now. I also don’t recall it being quite this invasive.

24

Yeah, I don’t care that much about what the government knows, really. They could easily find out whatever they wanted it to know. And I have at least enough faith in the system to know that at least most government branches intend to use information for the better good. My whole thing is that in the wrong hands this kind of information can do serious harm. And the wrong hands are often cleverly disguised…

25

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
I get all that. But guess what…most of that information is obvious. You don’t need to delve into the details of millions of lives to determine that poor people take public transportation or that more people would take public trans if the busses had more routes and brought the people to where the jobs are. There are more general questions that I would consider useful. The personal stuff…well, we’re told constantly that the bad guys are out there stealing identities and whatnot. I would be very hesitant to hand this info over without being VERY sure that the recipient was who they said it was. It would take NOTHING to get this form, copy it, and alter it in order to get enough info to screw someone.

[/QUOTE]

Uhhh you think this information is obvious!!! Didn’t you just say a few posts ago that we should just count all the cars in the road… yeah that really tells us people’s driving habits and how they get to work. I wish I had the energy to tell you how difficult and how UNOBVIOUS many facts of life are. People are seriously incredibly misguided about how policy is formulated.

It takes 2 minutes and Google to figure out if the questionnaires are being sent to the right place. The address in the pre-printed envelope isn’t the same as the Census Bureau? Then think twice. Otherwise, it should be relatively easy.

26

[QUOTE=DVsickgirlDV]
Uhhh you think this information is obvious!!! Didn’t you just say a few posts ago that we should just count all the cars in the road… yeah that really tells us people’s driving habits and how they get to work. I wish I had the energy to tell you how difficult and how UNOBVIOUS many facts of life are. People are seriously incredibly misguided about how policy is formulated.

It takes 2 minutes and Google to figure out if the questionnaires are being sent to the right place. The address in the pre-printed envelope isn’t the same as the Census Bureau? Then think twice. Otherwise, it should be relatively easy.
[/QUOTE]

They can count the cars without the invasive questionnaire. They can count the people in an area and count the number of people who are on the busses and trains every day. They see how transit companies add and delete routes and cars according to passenger load. This isn’t rocket science. But much of that sort of inquiry isn’t all that troublesome. The financial stuff is. The medical stuff is. There are other ways to get that information, and in fact, they probably have it through other regulatory bodies already.

27

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
I haven’t received it, but you can bet your ass they’ll have to drag my ass to court before I’ll answer questions like those posted here. NO. FUCKIN’. WAY. And I’ll bet their “demand” for this information won’t hold up in court anyway. But if they want to test it, bring it on. Fuckers.
[/QUOTE]

Kalhoun, Census authority is listed in the Constitution. And, as an ex-Census worker, I’ll tell you that scads of other people have copped your 'tude, & lost in court.

Every time.

28

[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor]
Kalhoun, Census authority is listed in the Constitution. And, as an ex-Census worker, I’ll tell you that scads of other people have copped your 'tude, & lost in court.

Every time.
[/QUOTE]

That’s fine. I believe you. But tell me…how do they know if I’m lying or not?

29

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
That’s fine. I believe you. But tell me…how do they know if I’m lying or not?
[/QUOTE]

They don’t but it can cause you and your community’s severe disadvantage if you skew the data.

30

[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor]
Kalhoun, Census authority is listed in the Constitution. And, as an ex-Census worker, I’ll tell you that scads of other people have copped your 'tude, & lost in court.
[/QUOTE]
Unless I’m missing another reference, the Constitution just mentions “an enumeration”, and “counting the whole number of persons”, both times in reference to apportioning Representatives to the states. The only legal precedent with respect to the census that I found on first search is about whether statistical methods can be used for this count (no). Can you provide some cites that show that the courts have upheld as Constitutionally required questions about finances, languages, and routes to work?

31

[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor]
Kalhoun, Census authority is listed in the Constitution. And, as an ex-Census worker, I’ll tell you that scads of other people have copped your 'tude, & lost in court.

Every time.
[/QUOTE]

I know this is not GD, but I’d appreciate some documentation of successful prosecution against folks who decline to complete one of these community surveys. Because my rather lengthy google search consistently turned up that there have been no prosecutions for failure to comply with the census since sometime back in the 50s. And there were various groups looking for folks who were the objects of such prosecution to use as test cases. I didn’t do a westlaw search. And, since I declined to participate, we’ll see if the jackbooted thugs come a-knocking at my door.

Sure, the census authority is listed in the Constitution - but for what purpose? IIRC, to calculate proportionate representation. I’ve got no objection to telling them how many people live at my address. But IMO the questions asked (do I have indoor plumbing?) far exceed what is Constitutionally authorized.

My objection is not due to a general distrust of the census bureau, government, or authority. Hell, I work for the federal government.

Instead, my objection has more of a philosophical basis, reflecting the tremendous value I place on personal privacy, and my objection to the coerced disclosure of personal information. For similar reasons, I will not allow cops to search my car or house without a warrant, even if I know I have nothing to hide. Or why I feel a person walking down the street minding his own business should not be required to show ID or even give his name to a cop. Or why I am more troubled by a number of Homeland Security measures than I am by the purported threats of terrorism.

But it seems as tho yet another measure by whoch I am out of step with the general population, who seems eager to throw away personal privacy in the hopes of some increased “security.”

I can certainly imagine that the government would find such information “useful.” But just because they “want” it does not mean they are necessarily entitled to it, or that I should be thrilled at being forced to disclose it.

32

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
I know this is not GD, but I’d appreciate some documentation of successful prosecution against folks who decline to complete one of these community surveys. Because my rather lengthy google search consistently turned up that there have been no prosecutions for failure to comply with the census since sometime back in the 50s. And there were various groups looking for folks who were the objects of such prosecution to use as test cases. I didn’t do a westlaw search. And, since I declined to participate, we’ll see if the jackbooted thugs come a-knocking at my door.

Sure, the census authority is listed in the Constitution - but for what purpose? IIRC, to calculate proportionate representation. I’ve got no objection to telling them how many people live at my address. But IMO the questions asked (do I have indoor plumbing?) far exceed what is Constitutionally authorized.

My objection is not due to a general distrust of the census bureau, government, or authority. Hell, I work for the federal government.

Instead, my objection has more of a philosophical basis, reflecting the tremendous value I place on personal privacy, and my objection to the coerced disclosure of personal information. For similar reasons, I will not allow cops to search my car or house without a warrant, even if I know I have nothing to hide. Or why I feel a person walking down the street minding his own business should not be required to show ID or even give his name to a cop. Or why I am more troubled by a number of Homeland Security measures than I am by the purported threats of terrorism.

But it seems as tho yet another measure by whoch I am out of step with the general population, who seems eager to throw away personal privacy in the hopes of some increased “security.”

I can certainly imagine that the government would find such information “useful.” But just because they “want” it does not mean they are necessarily entitled to it, or that I should be thrilled at being forced to disclose it.
[/QUOTE]
Fuckin’ well-told. I do believe there is an increased threat due to Bad Boys ™ posing as the government, but it smacks of a very heavy-handed Big Brother. And as I said, most of this information can be gleaned from other sources; regulatory groups, transit authorities, and the like. They don’t need to drill down into Joe Citizen’s life to know that there aren’t enough bus routes to accommodate workers in the suburbs or that Prozac is over-prescribed (doesn’t this go against the rules of doctor-patient privacy??).

I was watching Boston Legal last night and they touched on the very subject of buttinskiism in government today. I’m pretty fucking tired of it.

I, too, would be interested in seeing how this threat holds up in court.

33

[QUOTE=pudytat72]
My grandmother had to fill out one of these forms in the 60’s. She had a 2 bedroom house and lived alone. She was afraid that the government was going to send someone to live with her, to not “waste” the other bedroom.
[/QUOTE]

Did they?

Just curious, ya’ know.

34

Got one of those too, last year. Legitimate? Not an issue.

No. Fucking. Way.

Eventually the mailings stopped. That was that.

35

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Instead, my objection has more of a philosophical basis, reflecting the tremendous value I place on personal privacy, and my objection to the coerced disclosure of personal information. For similar reasons, I will not allow cops to search my car or house without a warrant, even if I know I have nothing to hide. Or why I feel a person walking down the street minding his own business should not be required to show ID or even give his name to a cop. Or why I am more troubled by a number of Homeland Security measures than I am by the purported threats of terrorism.
[/QUOTE]

Wow, that whole post was just awesome! That’s how I feel about the issue and would have said that if I could have written it that well.

Thanks to ltfire for starting this thread. When I sent my information back last year, I thought I was the only one that was upset about it. I’m glad to see that I’m not alone in this.

36

I didn’t get a long form, but we had a Census Bureau staffer come to our door (with proper ID) this summer after we got a letter from the CB, saying we were one of 10,000 households in our urban area selected for more in-depth questioning about employment issues. After a lot of basic questions about my and my wife’s jobs, our sons’ ages and schooling, etc., the CB lady has called me back every month or so just to see if there’s been any change in our circumstances. The questions haven’t been too intrusive at all, and for the few that have been, I’ve politely declined to answer, and she hasn’t pushed me or bitched about it.

For the public good, I don’t mind Uncle Sam asking questions like this. And as a citizen, I don’t mind answering most of 'em.