# Has the FBI officially closed the Alcatraz escape case? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 14, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865 "2016-07-14T00:46:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/21 "2016-07-22T13:18:39Z")
“sank to the bottom of the San Francisco Bay” I was under the impression that bodies floated to the surface after a few days. And since the water is somewhat salty bodies should even be more buoyant. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/22 "2016-07-22T20:17:56Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > I was under the impression that bodies floated to the surface after a few days. And since the water is somewhat salty bodies should even be more buoyant. As I understand it, the process is: 1. bodies sink. 2. decomposition starts, producing gases inside the body. 3. enough gas accumulates inside the body to make it light enough to rise to the surface. 4. body splits open, and/or animal prey on it, and the gases are released. 5. body (what remains of it) sinks once again. 6. fish, crabs, etc. eat what remains of the body. 7. skeleton is left, to eventually decompose into dust. Since San Francisco Bay is very cold, the decomposition process may be slowed, or just not produce enough gas to refloat the body. Or sea creatures could have eaten into the body & released the gases before there were enough to refloat the body. Or the body on the surface of the water may not have been seen by anyone before it sank again. So it’s quite possible, even most probable, that the bodies ended up at the bottom of San Francisco Bay. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/23 "2016-07-22T20:19:52Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > So it’s quite possible, even most probable, that the bodies ended up at the bottom of San Francisco Bay. Or they were washed out into the deep ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/24 "2016-07-22T20:28:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Right. Well, if it had been only one guy, maybe he made it, got a new ID, stopped his life of crime, died in such a way no one checked his fingerprints. \*Possible. \* > > But three? No way. So undertakers check fingerprints now, before embalming (or after)? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/25 "2016-07-22T20:42:28Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > So undertakers check fingerprints now, before embalming (or after)? “Stopped his life of crime” would imply that he fond a legitimate job. Shurly most of them take your fingerprints now? I first had that happen in the late 1990’s (though it was a fairly high security job). But don’t most employees in large companies now have photo-id security badges? And they take your fingerprints when issuing those. But I expect most of those fingerprints are never compared to those of most wanted criminals (especially those from 40 years ago). It would take a tremendous amount of work & expense. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/26 "2016-07-22T21:18:56Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > So undertakers check fingerprints now, before embalming (or after)? Coroners do, at least on John Does and anyone dying by violence. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/27 "2016-07-23T06:17:09Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > …Since San Francisco Bay is very cold, the decomposition process may be slowed, or just not produce enough gas to refloat the body. Or sea creatures could have eaten into the body & released the gases before there were enough to refloat the body. > > Or the body on the surface of the water may not have been seen by anyone before it sank again. > > So it’s quite possible, even most probable, that the bodies ended up at the bottom of San Francisco Bay. See this Dutch [team’s simulation of ocean currents](http://www.tudelft.nl/en/current/latest-news/article/detail/nederlandse-wetenschappers-laten-zien-ontsnapping-per-boot-van-alcatraz-in-1962-was-mogelijk/) the night of the escape. A whole lot of the sims end up with the three getting swept out past the Golden Gate, where presumably they became fish food. I can buy that either Morris or the Brothers made it. Especially if the survivors fled the country, maybe to Brazil if the Xmas Cards story with the Anglin Brothers is true. What I don’t buy is that three hard cases managed to escape and then stay out of trouble to and through the present day. Anyway, take a look at the Delft guys’ particle models. I think they drowned, and their jetsam ended up on Angel Island, with[a body discovered quite a bit northwest in the Pacific, outside the Golden Gate by the SS Norefjell.](http://www.alcatrazhistory.com/alcesc3.htm) Note also at that last link, the story of the Golden Gate suicide jumper Seymour Webb, who jumped around the same time as the escapees started swimming, and Webb’s body was never found. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/28 "2016-07-23T12:01:10Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > What if they were made of wood…or very small stones? Their bunk dummies were made of wood… ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/29 "2016-07-23T22:53:11Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > “Stopped his life of crime” would imply that he fond a legitimate job. Shurly most of them take your fingerprints now? I first had that happen in the late 1990’s (though it was a fairly high security job). But don’t most employees in large companies now have photo-id security badges? And they take your fingerprints when issuing those. > > But I expect most of those fingerprints are never compared to those of most wanted criminals (especially those from 40 years ago). It would take a tremendous amount of work & expense. I don’t think so. Number of full-time jobs as an adult: 6 Number of times fingerprinted for a job: 0 ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/30 "2016-07-25T01:29:32Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Can former prisoners John Anglin, Clarence Anglin, and Frank Morris relax and have a cold beer to celebrate? 😃 Even if the case is closed, I’m pretty sure they still have to keep in hiding. It’s not like the FBI closing the case = exoneration. Closing the case merely means that they’re not being actively searched for. If they’re still alive and their whereabouts became public knowledge, the FBI would be knocking on their door the next day, case closed or not. The same applies to DB Cooper. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/31 "2016-07-25T01:37:45Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Their bunk dummies were made of wood… That confuses the issue then. Do they have any warts and where do we stand on the newt issue? ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/32 "2018-01-24T16:15:44Z")
Updating this thread: > [@](#): > > It is one of America’s greatest mysteries: What happened to three men after they pulled off a daring prison break Alcatraz in 1962?.. > > A letter allegedly written by one of the escapees recently came to light. KPIX 5 exclusively obtained it from a source. > > “My name is John Anglin. I escape from Alcatraz in June 1962 with my brother Clarence and Frank Morris. I’m 83 years old and in bad shape. I have cancer. Yes we all made it that night but barely!” > > The FBI says this is the most recent piece of evidence that forced the agency to reopen the iconic cold case. The letter was sent to the San Francisco Police Department’s Richmond station in 2013. > **[Letter Allegedly Written By 1962 Alcatraz Island Escapee Surfaces](https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/letter-allegedly-written-alcatraz-island-escapee-surfaces/)** > > John and Clarence Anglin and Frank Morris disappeared from Alcatraz Island in 1962 and have never been found. But now a letter has surfaced. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/33 "2018-01-24T17:59:26Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > I don’t think so. > > Number of full-time jobs as an adult: 6 > Number of times fingerprinted for a job: 0 Yes, it is not standard for your employer to take your fingerprints as a condition of employment. In 30 years of employment had to do it once…when I got a job as a driver for the school district and they needed to run a background check. It’s very easy to go through life without getting your fingerprints taken. And even if they do take your fingerprints, there isn’t a giant database of fingerprints that they match them to and there’s a big buzzing noise and Chris Hansen jumps out. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/34 "2018-01-24T18:12:47Z")
I have a very hard time believing three repeat offenders escaped prison and went straight. The letter claims two men died just a few years ago. I guess anything is possible. Perhaps the fear of returning to prison did offer deterrence to further crimes. But, I’d want better proof than an anonymous letter. Couldn’t the handwriting be verified with old samples from family letters? The report says its inconclusive. They may have only used signatures on old prison forms. Complete letters would offer much better testing. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/35 "2018-01-24T19:40:26Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > “Stopped his life of crime” would imply that he fond a legitimate job. Shurly most of them take your fingerprints now? I first had that happen in the late 1990’s (though it was a fairly high security job). But don’t most employees in large companies now have photo-id security badges? And they take your fingerprints when issuing those. Not sure how you got the idea that taking fingerprints goes with photo-id badges. Most places have a simple setup with a digital camera and some software that lets them print your picture on a badge right there. But they don’t have the specialized equipment you’d need for taking fingerprints, or anyone trained to take them properly (badly taken fingerprints are a problem for people seeking security clearance). I’ve worked at multiple large companies that did regular background checks and used photo IDs, and none of them did fingerprints. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/36 "2018-01-25T22:13:04Z")
I have only had two jobs that required fingerprints, and that was because they required a security clearance. No other job required it and it would cost additional money to run prints. I just don’t see why you’d have to do it unless the job requires it, like a clearance, or a pharmacist, people who work in banks, etc. Also, looking at that article about the guys that went to Brazil. Yeah, kinda see the match on the top mug shot and blurry print, but the bottom mug shot doesn’t match at all. Also, bottom mug shot, nose looks a bit crooked, Brazil shot it doesn’t. Probability is dropping… ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/37 "2018-01-25T23:23:15Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > But they don’t have the specialized equipment you’d need for taking fingerprints… You mean like a cell phone? Most of the newer cell phones have a fingerprint sensor that can be used to unlock the phone. The first one was from Toshiba in 2007, 11 years ago, and iphones have had them since 2013. 3M makes a mobile fingerprinting device that police officers all over the country use to identify people who have (or claim to have) no id using the Bluecheck system. It uses a similar fingerprint sensor and has 95%-99+% accuracy, when used by the average cop. And the devices are cheap enough that the maker is now pushing them to liquor & tobacco stores. So while employers may choose to not record fingerprints of employees, it’s not because of any specialized equipment, given modern technology. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/38 "2018-01-25T23:34:47Z")
How does the fact that your smartphone can do fingerprint ID square with what we know about bogus/dodgy fingerprint IDs in criminal cases? It it that new tech outstrips what the FBI/cops were using? Is this Bluecheck system considered reliable by anyone besides the people selling it? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/39 "2018-01-26T04:07:49Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > How does the fact that your smartphone can do fingerprint ID square with what we know about bogus/dodgy fingerprint IDs in criminal cases? I was responding to the claim that it takes specialized equipment & training to do fingerprinting. That’s not accurate, given current technology, > [@TSBG](#): > > It it that new tech outstrips what the FBI/cops were using? Is this Bluecheck system considered reliable by anyone besides the people selling it? This is the technology that the police are using. Los Angeles police have nearly 3,000 Bluecheck devices. New York City police have about 6,000 devices (Bluecheck or competitor brand). New Zealand also uses the Bluecheck scanners. Atlanta, GA police use competing brand Morpho RapID, as does Australia & many European police forces. All these police forces continue to use them because they are indeed reliable for their purposes. You can find lots of Youtube videos of them in use during police stops. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865/40 "2018-01-26T13:13:52Z")
While I concur with most sentiments, that these three were, one, unlikely to survive and get away undetected, and two, perhaps even more unlikely to have disappeared, gotten on the straight and narrow and never gotten into trouble again. Having said that . . . From a quick read of their bios, it didn’t appear that they were violent offenders. And if it’s true that they didn’t kill anyone, would it be so bad for the Marshall’s office to say in this one particular case, we will waive any further prosecution in this due to the ongoing public interest? An olly olly oxen free kinda thing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-fbi-officially-closed-the-alcatraz-escape-case/759865.md?page=3)