# Has the left empowered Putin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 14, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760 "2019-01-14T21:32:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/21 "2019-01-15T01:19:43Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Are you suggesting that if a political party sees something or someone as a threat, they should really keep it quiet, for fear of empowering that thing or person? It’s a rhetorical attempt to hang the libs by their own petards: “you claim to hate Putin, but you’re really just helping him!” Correct me if I’m wrong, oh **Ancient Erudite**. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/22 "2019-01-15T01:21:39Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > I think this is an analogue to the familiar “if you didn’t complain about racism (which isn’t really/too big a problem) so much, people wouldn’t be so quote unquote racist” argument. > > If so, don’t be shocked that it’s a bit hard to follow. Oh dear Og. So it’s a “pipe or hammer” decision again, huh. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/23 "2019-01-15T01:30:16Z")
[QUOTE=Ancient Erudite;21430094and nothing shows a single vote was comprised[/QUOTE] You don’t need to hack the votes when you’ve hacked the voters. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/24 "2019-01-15T01:30:32Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > By fueling the fire and fanning the flames of collusion, which of course is a fantasy pipe dream with over two years of nothing, they are playing into Putin’s hands. Of course! Is giant burger of nothing. A fantasy pipe dream playing right into Putin’s hands, which are much larger than those of USA president Trump, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/25 "2019-01-15T01:37:49Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Of course! Is giant burger of nothing. A fantasy pipe dream playing right into Putin’s hands, which are much larger than those of USA president Trump, yes? Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/26 "2019-01-15T02:00:17Z")
I’ll give the same response I gave in the other thread; the world doesn’t orbit around American politics. Putin doesn’t need the right or the left in America to empower him. His power base is in Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/27 "2019-01-15T02:05:14Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > By fueling the fire and fanning the flames of collusion, which of course is a fantasy pipe dream with over two years of nothing, they are playing into Putin’s hands. The left has empowered Putin with this collusion nonsense, and there was no interference on the level of changing votes. > > Ironic, when Trump said the election was rigged, many on the left frowned and laughed. Now, that is what they are running with and there is a political price to pay. That’s because Trump was lying and the Democrats were telling the truth. Notice how the Democrats have been pushing for an investigation and Trump and the Republicans have been trying to shut it down. That tells you who’s guilty and is worried about the truth coming out. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/28 "2019-01-15T02:21:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > … How many years has it been since you’ve watched the news? I wonder if **Mr. Erudite** is capable of giving an honest percentage breakdown of which news channels he watches. It’s rather clear he’s in a Fake News bubble. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/29 "2019-01-15T02:49:43Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > As any number of people have asked, _what would Trump do differently if he were a Russian asset?_ A list of things that fall heavily under executive control just off the top of my head: - Cancel [Operation Atlantic Resolve](http://www.eur.army.mil/AtlanticResolve/). - Cancel the ballistic missile defense facilities being constructed in Poland. - End the long term deployment of Aegis ballistic missile defense capable destroyers home ported in Rota, Spain. - Ignore Russia being in breach of the Intermediate Nuclear Forces treaty when they fielded the SSC-8 - Cancel the ongoing build of an Army Prepositioned Equipment site in Poland - Stop selling weapons to Ukraine. At a minimum, an agent trying to avoid being too obvious shouldn’t be increasing sales. - Not deploy US troops to Poland in 2017 as the lead for Battle Group Poland under the NATO Enhanced Forward Presence mission. - Don’t curb stomp a battalion sized task force of Russian mercenaries and Syrian troops when they attack a YPG outpost at the [Battle of Khasham](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html) last Feb. - Stay within Budget Control Act guidelines limiting DOD funding instead of actively pursuing large budget increases. - Withdraw from the[Baltic Air Policing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Air_Policing) mission. The US is only a small part of the mission but has had one rotation since Trump took office. - Don’t make a giant issue about most NATO members missing spending targets. Let them. - Don’t pressure Saudi Arabia to drive down oil prices by increasing supply Now a lot of that seems to have been Mattis exercising National Command Authority in a vacuum. The Battle of Khasham story neglects any mention of including Trump in the decision making cycle. There’s a lot that Trump could have done in areas where Congress and the courts wouldn’t have been a major impediment. To do them he’d need to be competent and engaged as well as an agent. IMO the competent and engaged parts are so in question the agent part is completely obscured. I’d bet he’d be surprised were doing some of things on my list above. …and I am reminded once again why I am going to miss Mattis in the SECDEF chair. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/30 "2019-01-15T03:35:22Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > A list of things that fall heavily under executive control just off the top of my head:… It seems to me, these are what Trump would do if he were trying to help Russia win an actual shooting war with the US. But that obviously isn’t Putin’s goal - his goal is to diminish the power of the US (and increase his wealth & power) without actually fighting a war. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/31 "2019-01-15T10:44:00Z")
“TThe Trump administration’s policy actions often seem at odds with the President’s rhetoric. To set the record on policy actions, rather than rhetoric, we have tracked the administration’s concrete actions on Russia since January 20, 2017. The timeline is updated regularly and includes all official administration actions to date.” > **[On the record: The U.S. administration’s actions on Russia](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/09/25/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/)** > > What has the administration actually done on Russia? Below is a chronological list of its actions and official statements since January 20, 2017. During that period, the administration has taken 27 actions on Russia. Please educate yourselves with real policy folks instead of Maddow and NPR. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/32 "2019-01-15T11:09:34Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > His goal is to sow chaos and civil war here. I disagree. His goal is to protect and promote Russia. Destabilising America helps that. But really, he doesn’t need to do anything. You Americans are doing it yourselves anyway. Nixon, of course, got impeached. And that started the ball rolling. The only president after Nixon to not have impeachment proceedings started against him is Carter. Wikipedia has an article [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_investigations_of_United_States_federal_officials). A house divided against itself cannot stand. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/33 "2019-01-15T11:18:50Z")
Месть за товарища Ельцина! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/34 "2019-01-15T11:19:25Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Of course! Is giant burger of nothing. A fantasy pipe dream playing right into Putin’s hands, which are much larger than those of USA president Trump, yes? _Buys Vinyl Turnip a round of Stoli_ ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/35 "2019-01-15T11:33:13Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > By fueling the fire and fanning the flames of collusion, which of course is a fantasy pipe dream with over two years of nothing, they are playing into Putin’s hands. Wait, let’s get you on the record here… you are confirming that Putin is a dangerous enemy of the US, correct? Anyone who colludes with him is a criminal and potentially a traitor, yes? This is going to be very significant in a few months, so we need you to speak into the microphone here. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/36 "2019-01-15T12:01:05Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Wait, so the words of every single intelligence agency saying Russia interfered with our recent elections means Russia DIDN’T interfere and is now stronger, even though anyone with simultaneously firing neurons can see they interfered with our elections? Get a clue. Of course Russia tried to interfere with the American elections to its benefit. Just as America tried and still tries to interfere with Russia, with China, with India, and everyone else to the benefit of America. Just as China tries to interfere with elections in other countries to the benefit of China. Just as every other country tries to their own benefit. This is the real world and it’s dirty and nasty out there beneath the surface and not a Panglossian utopia of fluffy bunnies. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/37 "2019-01-15T12:16:14Z")
Nixon wasn’t impeached. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/38 "2019-01-15T12:49:18Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I disagree. His goal is to protect and promote Russia. Destabilising America helps that. > > But really, he doesn’t need to do anything. You Americans are doing it yourselves anyway. Nixon, of course, got impeached. And that started the ball rolling. The only president after Nixon to not have impeachment proceedings started against him is Carter. Wikipedia has an article [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_investigations_of_United_States_federal_officials). > > A house divided against itself cannot stand. While impeachment may have been threatened other times, impeachment has only happened twice: Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson. Not Nixon, and the only one after Nixon was Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/39 "2019-01-15T13:10:24Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I disagree. His goal is to protect and promote Russia. Destabilising America helps that. > > But really, he doesn’t need to do anything. You Americans are doing it yourselves anyway. Nixon, of course, got impeached. And that started the ball rolling. The only president after Nixon to not have impeachment proceedings started against him is Carter. Wikipedia has an article [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_investigations_of_United_States_federal_officials). > > A house divided against itself cannot stand. Individual congressmen grandstanding by introducing impeachment resolutions that get nowhere are frivolous and may be ignored. Putin is playing a long game. While the US did premature victory dances celebrating the end of the Cold War, Putin did not surrender. He kept the battle going on a different front. He won the first battle of the age of cyber warfare by installing his puppet in the White House. He’ll never stop trying to reconstitute the USSR and if he succeeds in destroying western democratic rule, he’ll succeed in rebuilding the USSR. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/40 "2019-01-15T14:19:07Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > One thing the left and the right can agree on is Putin is probably the most dangerous leader of another nation. > > If no proof of collusion is found, and nothing shows a single vote was comprised, what type of political damage has the President of the United States sustained? Might Putin be the biggest winner of this Russian interference business? Is this some sort of time travel post? Was the first draft of this written in 2017? If no proof of collusion is found? We already have proof of collusion. A lot of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760.md?page=3)