# Has the left empowered Putin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 14, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760 "2019-01-14T21:32:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/61 "2019-01-15T23:18:09Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Don’t think so, chief. Not unless “let’s do sanctions instead of war” is what you’re talking about, which is a totally reasonable way to approach a superpower. > > Sanctions which, by the way, Trump is trying to undo. You’re incorrect. I remember BOTH of them retailing the “but Ukraine used to be part of Russia!” argument, and also that there were some unsavory types associated with the anti-Yanukovych movement–which are both true, but not an excuse to invade a country, or defend the invasion. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/62 "2019-01-16T00:24:15Z")
It is pretty weird to claim that previous Russian imperialism justifies present Russian expansionism. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/63 "2019-01-16T02:15:07Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > You’re incorrect. I remember BOTH of them retailing the “but Ukraine used to be part of Russia!” argument, and also that there were some unsavory types associated with the anti-Yanukovych movement–which are both true, but not an excuse to invade a country, or defend the invasion. Why should any of us rely on your memory? Google ain’t broken. If you can find an article or tweet excusing or defending the invasion, why not link it? I suspect you are misremembering a [WaPo article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/katrina-vanden-heuvel-the-ukraine-crisis-calls-for-less-bluster-more-common-sense/2014/03/04/efd89812-a313-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8308d2c95735): > [@Katrina vanden Heuvel](#): > > Neoconservatives, politicians and frustrated Cold Warriors filling armchairs in the outdated “strategic” think tanks that litter Washington will continue to howl at the moon. But U.S. policy should be run by the sober. The president would be well advised to investigate whether the European Union, Russia and the United States can join together to preserve Ukraine’s territorial unity; to support new and free elections; and to agree to allow Ukraine to be part of both the European Union and Russian customs union, while reaffirming the pledge that NATO will not extend itself into Ukraine. It is time to reduce tensions and create possibility, not flex rhetorical muscles and fan the flames of folly. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/64 "2019-01-16T02:52:08Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > You’re incorrect. I remember oh I’m sorry, I didn’t realize your memory was your cite. Just kidding, bring receipts or it’s BS. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/65 "2019-01-17T16:35:51Z")
[“I never said there was no collusion between the campaign, or people in the campaign,” Giuliani said.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/16/politics/rudy-giuliani-cnntv/index.html) Even Trump’s own lawyer is no longer saying, “No collusion.” ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/66 "2019-01-17T16:39:09Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > [“I never said there was no collusion between the campaign, or people in the campaign,” Giuliani said.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/16/politics/rudy-giuliani-cnntv/index.html) > > Even Trump’s own lawyer is no longer saying, “No collusion.” Whew. I haven’t seen backpedaling like that since I rewound my tape of the Tour de France. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/67 "2019-01-17T17:18:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > QFT. After the U.S. interfered with elections in Latin America, South America and elsewhere in the Cold War Which Republicans thought was just great, while leftists protested. > [@](#): > > it should be the last nation to ever cry about its elections having been interfered with. Leftists are protesting this, while Republicans think it’s just great. Everybody’s being consistent. ---
**Author:** ![Ancient\_Erudite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ancient\_Erudite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ancient_Erudite)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/68 "2019-01-17T22:42:05Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Yes, my cynical Scottish friend. The problem is that this time Kremlin succeeded in putting in the Oval Office someone who sees modern history through Kremlin’s eyes, and is adversarial toward the country he is constitutionally & by oath supposed to protect. Really? Why did Trump attack Syria when Putin warned him not to. One could argue there are 10,000+ victims every year from lack of border security. Trump is for increased border security. The left was for this years ago, but now they are against the idea. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/69 "2019-01-17T22:45:10Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > … Trump is for increased border security. … No he isn’t, all he wants is a big fucking wall. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/70 "2019-01-17T23:34:41Z")
> [@Ancient\_Erudite](#): > > By fueling the fire and fanning the flames of collusion, which of course is a fantasy pipe dream with over two years of nothing, they are playing into Putin’s hands. The left has empowered Putin with this collusion nonsense, and there was no interference on the level of changing votes. > > Ironic, when Trump said the election was rigged, many on the left frowned and laughed. Now, that is what they are running with and there is a political price to pay. Multiple people have already been indicted. Trump could be under sealed indictment right now, and those indictments will be unsealed when he is no longer president. There hasn’t been a single investigation into Trump & russia that has been honest and also done to completion. Mueller is still working. And as I mentioned, the Russia collusion is just one of many, many crimes Trump and his administration are being investigated for. More than that, Hillary had about 7 benghazi investigations. 0 indictments. Mueller has indicted at least 36 people so far. So far Trumps campaign manager, head of intelligence, personal attorney and a bunch of other people have flipped and given info to the government. Trump is already an unindicted co-conspirator in the Michael Cohen case in NY. I made the mistake of assuming you were debating in good faith. You just want to live in a bubble of ignorance because the real world is unpleasant and lies are pleasurable. There is a term for that, rhymes with doughflake. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/71 "2019-01-18T05:17:09Z")
ERMAHGERD. A new crime. Who saw that coming. > **[BuzzFeed: Sources say Trump directed Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about...](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/17/politics/buzzfeed-trump-cohen-lie-congress-moscow/index.html)** > > President Donald Trump personally directed his longtime former attorney Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about the Moscow Trump Tower project, two federal law enforcement officials involved in an investigation of the matter told BuzzFeed. Add new charges of obstruction of justice, perjury, witness tampering and who knows what else to the pile 'o crimes being investigated. ---
**Author:** ![JB99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/439d5e/32.png) [@JB99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JB99)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2019, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760/72 "2019-01-18T05:48:36Z")
This whole thread is just another in a string of attempts to convince liberals to shut up. It’s the same flavor of, “By protesting against Trump, liberals only increase Trump’s support.” The underlying message is that liberals should just shut up and be quiet because that… um… Makes it better? I guess? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-empowered-putin/827760.md?page=3)