# Has the left figured out why Trump won the election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 30, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827 "2018-07-30T19:32:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/21 "2018-07-30T20:21:16Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’re asking if we know why so many people voted for Trump? Maybe you should lay it out for us. Yup, why don’t you explain it to us. A lot of us can’t figure out how someone with so much baggage was elected president. I assume it was a mix of Loyalty to the GOP Hatred of the democrats and liberals, but especially Hillary Clinton Identification with Trump’s racial pandering But the main one is the first. I think about 90% of Romney voters ended up voting for Trump. Barely 5-10% of Obama voters supported Trump, and that is about the same number of Romney voters who supported Clinton. So for the most part, it doesn’t matter what Trump does wrong, in the eyes of 90% of republicans he is still better than a democrat. I’m guessing that is why he won. That and due to their media echo chamber they are never exposed to his scandals. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/22 "2018-07-30T20:22:08Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Because no one vote was changed and the media fails to mention that. I’m trying to stay away from conspiracy theories in this thread. No excuses as to why Clinton lost please, I’m looking for the reasons why Trump won. How do you know? How do you know there’s no evidence? Mueller’s investigation has been air-tight. The only information is what Mueller wants publicly known. You have no idea what he knows and hasn’t revealed yet. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/23 "2018-07-30T20:23:04Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Sure, the winning team has to do something to win. Actually, they need to do several things to win. In this case, why did Trump win? I have not seen that thread here. > > I think there are reasons Trump won, aside from bogus accusations and Hillary’s being a weak candidate and the left has trouble seeing them. > > So far the lack of detailed replies to the question is illustrating a working theory…they still don’t know why he won. Yet he did, winning 30 of 50 states and the electoral college 306 to 232. > > I’ll reply with the reasons I think he won at a later time in this thread. Since you’ve already had some good answers, I take it we’re supposed to guess what YOU think is the reason Trump won. You realize that’s a totally different question than asking why we think Trump won, right? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/24 "2018-07-30T20:23:26Z")
I’ve been thinking about this question in a different way recently, and I think this approach is becoming more and more useful to me. In the 1960s and 1970s, some portions of the political left was criticized by more mainstream America for the lack of adherence to certain norms. Think about hippies and associated rabble-rousers, really. Among those norms that were rejected were various things associated with the modern: rejection of conformity, deep suspicion of institutions, sometimes a very subjective view overriding objective ones, and so on. I think over the last half-decade or so, many of these elements of postmodern thought started spreading from the counterculture into mainstream society, but not directly in the way those ideas were described at the time. For example, hippies talked about free love, and I wouldn’t say that we have actually adopted that… but we’re a long way from earlier attitudes, too. So in the last election, building on a very substantial shift in conservative politics stemming from the Tea Party movement, I think we’ve seen the embrace and nearly complete takeover of the Republican Party by postmodern thought. Trump especially taps into the idea that everyone’s individual perceptions are what is reality: this way of viewing things means that objective reporting (whether science or journalism) has no more reflection on reality than a tripping Deadhead wondering whether the color blue to him is the color blue to you. When reality is defined as whatever one wishes it to be, people have no reason to believe that they need to reconcile any contradictions in things that they wish to believe versus that which they observe. In a reality-based world, someone having negative opinions about Mexicans would probably have to confront at some point as to whether they are racist. In this factless version of reality, it’s totally cool to hate Mexicans and there need never be any thought on whether that’s racist, because that’s not what the person wants to be. This is more than just about race, of course. Social conservatives need not reconcile that someone who has their strong support is totally cool with “grabbing them by their pussy” and cheating on his wife with nude models and porn stars. Why? Because that’s a reality that can be totally discarded, because it doesn’t feeeeeel right compared with what they want to do. The irony in all this is that the acceleration of this trend in believing in nothing thinking has been so rapidly spread by a single individual who is so authoritarian in his ways. Typically authoritarians convince people to surrender to power, as opposed to embrace a sort of nihilism toward objectivity. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/25 "2018-07-30T20:25:31Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Trump won because Hillary’s team dropped the ball and lost by a very narrow margin in a couple of key states. > > If we want to go back to the primary, Trump won over the other Republican non-entities because he got a huge amount of free media. The news media fucking love Trump, because Trump gives them ratings. Obviously they hate him, but they hate him like wrestling fans hate the heel. Without the heel there’s no story. These reasons are part of Trump’s victory. We don’t know for sure that the Russians put him over the top, but the big question the left wants to dodge is not why Trump won, but why Hillary lost. And largely it’s the same reason all of Trump’s GOP primary opponents lost, they had nothing to offer to the wide range of people dissatisfied with the status quo. Add to that Hillary’s lack of personality, long term avoidance of tough questions, and a terrible campaign that ignored much of the Democratic base and it’s no surprise that the new and shiny candidate on the scene scored so well. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/26 "2018-07-30T20:28:54Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > So far the lack of detailed replies to the question is illustrating a working theory… I don’t know what thread you are reading, but I have read half a dozen good explanations. _shrug_ A man sees what he wants to see. > [@](#): > > I’ll reply with the reasons I think he won at a later time in this thread. I’m breathless. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/27 "2018-07-30T20:34:12Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I’m breathless. Me too. I’m betting… America realized he was awesome I’m not quite clear on how many details will be added, but that’s sure to be the short version of it. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/28 "2018-07-30T20:38:25Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Because no one vote was changed and the media fails to mention that. … This is absolutely unknown. Intelligence investigations \*did not look at \*whether votes were changed, or whether the election count was tampered with. There is evidence, however, that Russians gained access to[voter registration databases](https://www.vox.com/2018/2/27/17060132/intelligence-russia-hacking-us-elections). Keeping a Democrat from voting is just as good as deleting his vote, no? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/29 "2018-07-30T20:57:22Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Let’s stay away from Russia topic, as there is zero evidence of collusion and absolutely no evidence that one vote was tapered with on the voting machines. There is lots and lots of evidence of collusion. You keep posting that there is no evidence when there is a ton of evidence and the amount of publicly available evidence is steadily increasing. It is amazing to me that you think there is zero evidence of collusion. What do you think evidence means? Or collusion? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/30 "2018-07-30T22:57:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And, of course, “why did we lose before?” is not the same question as “how do we keep from losing again?”. The answers to the former may offer insight on the latter, but sometimes it’s insight that we don’t want or need. For instance, some Trump voters undoubtedly did so because they knew that he was a racist sexist bigoted asshole, and that’s exactly what they wanted. We might be able to win those people over by running a racist sexist bigoted asshole of our own, but we’re not going to, because the whole point is to get rid of a racist sexist bigoted asshole. In light of that — and of the thread title — there’s something I keep thinking will happen, and I don’t know what to expect will happen next; I’ve mentioned it here before, and I still can’t avoid Step One or decide on Step Two. Whoever the Democrats tap will, I figure, eventually be asked — on live national television — _“When she ran for president against Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton famously said half of Trump’s supporters were deplorable and irredeemable; the next day, she said ‘I regret saying half; that was wrong’. Do you think half of Trump’s supporters are deplorable and irredeemable? More? Less?”_ I can’t imagine that won’t get asked. How should the candidate respond? ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/31 "2018-07-30T22:58:40Z")
What level of culpability does the SDMB have for providing a forum for OP’s propaganda? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/32 "2018-07-30T23:04:10Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > In light of that — and of the thread title — there’s something I keep thinking will happen, and I don’t know what to expect will happen next; I’ve mentioned it here before, and I still can’t avoid Step One or decide on Step Two. > > Whoever the Democrats tap will, I figure, eventually be asked — on live national television — _“When she ran for president against Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton famously said half of Trump’s supporters were deplorable and irredeemable; the next day, she said ‘I regret saying half; that was wrong’. Do you think half of Trump’s supporters are deplorable and irredeemable? More? Less?”_ > > I can’t imagine that won’t get asked. How should the candidate respond? This doesn’t seem that hard. The candidate says that no one is irredeemable and Hillary was wrong to say so, then pivots to jobs and unmet needs, or pivots to out of touch elite, or pivots to whatever. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/33 "2018-07-30T23:16:47Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Let’s stay away from Russia topic, as there is zero evidence of collusion and absolutely no evidence that one vote was tapered with on the voting machines. Seriously? > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Aw come-on. Racists, and bigots are on both sides. The left has a ugly narrative of saying its a white problem, but I can think of no other group who’s vote is split closer down the middle between the two parties. So Sarcasm aside, what are the reasons? Seriously? > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > So far the lack of detailed replies to the question is illustrating a working theory…they still don’t know why he won. Seriously? > [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Because no one vote was changed and the media fails to mention that. I’m trying to stay away from conspiracy theories in this thread. Seriously? > [@running\_coach](#): > > In case you’re wondering, that’s not what Mueller is investigating. And since there’s no official crime of collusion, could you explain why you keep harping on it? Fucking seriously? ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/34 "2018-07-30T23:27:38Z")
This is exactly why Trump won. Trump and his campaign made outlandish statements that are a 100 on the lying scale and Democrats tried to debate the minutia as if this was a normal campaign. Trump, his campaign, and OP don’t believe the shit they spew. They just throw so much shit out there that people go “well hell if even 20% of what he says is true” meanwhile their opponents get bogged down refuting lie after lie after lie. If you begin to debate the lies you’ve already lost. This is why the SDMB allowing this shit in the forum or CNN providing a voice to them in the interest of fairness is so damn dangerous. It gives them credibility. It’s the same style tactic that Hitler and the Nazis used in The a big Lie. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/35 "2018-07-30T23:28:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This is more than just about race, of course. Social conservatives need not reconcile that someone who has their strong support is totally cool with “grabbing them by their pussy” and cheating on his wife with nude models and porn stars. Why? Because that’s a reality that can be totally discarded, because it doesn’t feeeeeel right compared with what they want to do. Many of the conservatives who voted for Trump very literally believe that they are in a war for control of the country, a war of cultures and values. If you’re in a war, I mean actually fighting in the middle of a battle, with bullets flying around and bombs exploding - do you care whether the sergeant leading your platoon shares the same moral values, religion, or politics as you? No, what you care about is whether or not he can keep you alive, and accomplish the objective of the mission. This is, I think, essentially how Middle American conservative voters view Donald Trump. They don’t necessarily care what his actual beliefs are. They don’t care what his actual beliefs are. He’s their tool for surviving through the mission - i.e. appointing the right justices, upholding strict immigration laws (which are motivated more by racism than anything else, but that’s what they want), and more than anything, putting The Liberals in their place. Maybe a better analogy is actually: does the bomber pilot care about the moral values of the bomb falling towards his target? Donald Trump is that bomb. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/36 "2018-07-30T23:34:28Z")
There were millions of illegal votes cast for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/37 "2018-07-30T23:44:34Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Many of the conservatives who voted for Trump very literally believe that they are in a war for control of the country, a war of cultures and values. If you’re in a war, I mean actually fighting in the middle of a battle, with bullets flying around and bombs exploding - do you care whether the sergeant leading your platoon shares the same moral values, religion, or politics as you? No, what you care about is whether or not he can keep you alive, and accomplish the objective of the mission. This is, I think, essentially how Middle American conservative voters view Donald Trump. They don’t necessarily care what his actual beliefs are. They don’t care what his actual beliefs are. He’s their tool for surviving through the mission - i.e. appointing the right justices, upholding strict immigration laws (which are motivated more by racism than anything else, but that’s what they want), and more than anything, putting The Liberals in their place. > > Maybe a better analogy is actually: does the bomber pilot care about the moral values of the bomb falling towards his target? Donald Trump is that bomb. Pretty much. A growing number of conservative voters seem to feel that any criminal, intellectual or moral failing is acceptable in a politician as long as that politician serves white nationalism, resists multiculturalism and supports conservative judges. Plus now that they have such advanced echo chambers, they can just pretend these criticisms aren’t real. OP does this by claiming the Russia investigation is a hoax. Exit polls showed many of Roy Moore’s voters felt the allegations against him were false too. If reality becomes unpleasant they just ignore it. Our country is fucked. I hope China does a better job as a world superpower than we did. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/38 "2018-07-30T23:52:04Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Pretty much. A growing number of conservative voters seem to feel that any criminal, intellectual or moral failing is acceptable in a politician as long as that politician serves white nationalism, resists multiculturalism and supports conservative judges. Plus now that they have such advanced echo chambers, they can just pretend these criticisms aren’t real. OP does this by claiming the Russia investigation is a hoax. Exit polls showed many of Roy Moore’s voters felt the allegations against him were false too. If reality becomes unpleasant they just ignore it. > > Our country is fucked. I hope China does a better job as a world superpower than we did. I’m not quite as despondent as you, but I ran across this from David Frum, which rings true: > [@](#): > > “If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.” > **[An Exit From Trumpocracy](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/frum-trumpocracy/550685/)** > > The stability of American society depends on conservatives finding a way forward from the Trump dead end. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/39 "2018-07-30T23:52:11Z")
Although it’s true that this topic has been done to death on the SDMB in a dozen different permutations as others pointed out above, I do agree with the OP that “Why did Trump win” is slightly different than “Why did Hillary lose” - and more so, the OP isn’t just asking why Trump won, he is asking _if the political left has figured out why Trump won._ I think the left has partially figured out why Trump won. But many liberals are blaming Trump’s victory on factors that are outside the left’s control - i.e., the Comey letter, Russia’s interference, the difficulty of a party holding the White House for three straight terms, etc. - rather than on factors within the left’s control - i.e., the Democratic message, whether white ‘heartland voters’ felt the Democratic Party cared about them, etc. It’s always painful for a party to change course after a defeat and admit shortcomings; always easier to blame factors outside one’s control. The Republicans didn’t and couldn’t bring themselves to change course after 2012; they doubled down. And it resulted in Trump winning in 2016, so that was a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827/40 "2018-07-31T00:16:21Z")
I think a lot of people voted for him because they though he had no chance and just epwanted to make a little protest with their vote Plus, the huge number of deplorables. Together, that turned the election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-left-figured-out-why-trump-won-the-election/818827.md?page=3)