# Has the media misrepresented the incident with the Covington Cathlic kids? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210 "2019-01-22T17:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/181 "2019-01-23T15:53:09Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Stand up? How? By beating a loud drum in some kids face? How is that “non-violent”? It’s pure provocation. > > Ever heard of a thing called “words”? It was “prayers” what we are talking about here. And you are only showing ignorance about what non-violence protests involve too. BTW you are here ignoring what the ruling MAGAT is doing with his provocations to Native Americans; they can’t ignore it, but violence is not what they are calling here to use against misguided kids that are learning about normalizing authoritarianism. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > The kids showed TONS of restraint. I wouldnt let that jerk beat that damn thing in my face nor would I allow ANTIFA thugs to blow whistles and air horns in my face. And then you lose completely. ‘Always remember, others may hate you, but those who hate you don’t win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself.’ - Richard Nixon. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/182 "2019-01-23T15:54:58Z")
"hey, what you’re seeing is the steady, purposeful erasure of the social consequences for bigotry by a conservative sphere predicated on that same bigotry it’s worth recalling that a social price to naked bigotry is a fairly new phenomenon and getting rid of it was always what “MAGA” meant" - [Taken from Talia Lavin on twitter](https://twitter.com/chick_in_kiev/status/1087858755507814400). In this case, what we’re seeing is an attempt for that same conservative sphere to create social _rewards_ for that kind of bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/183 "2019-01-23T16:31:42Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Stand up? How? By beating a loud drum in some kids face? How is that “non-violent”? It’s pure provocation. > > Ever heard of a thing called “words”? > The kids showed TONS of restraint. I wouldnt let that jerk beat that damn thing in my face nor would I allow ANTIFA thugs to blow whistles and air horns in my face. From my seeing the video, I believe that is a large part of what happened. The school kids and the Black Hebrew group were getting into it verbally and during the verbal standoff, here comes this old Indian walking into the mix, chanting, and beating a drum. Now, maybe, and very likely, this was a symbol of his culture and he was trying to bring peace between the two groups, but in the heat of the moment, you aren’t really sure what he is up to. Maybe you are about to take a whack to the head from that drumstick. I can understand the kid acting as he did. He was not going to cede his ground, but he showed situational awareness by keeping his eyes on the crowd around him and the Indian beating a drum right in front of him. He said he smiled/smirked in order to show that he was not going to harm the old guy, and I have no reason to think any different. Maybe he could have handled in a different or better way in hindsight, but he is 16 YEARS OLD! I find it appalling that some posters in this thread believe that they should be social pariahs for wearing MAGA hats or supporting the President of the United States. What is the message we should be sending to kids? That there is no free debate in the country and everyone has to be a good liberal? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/184 "2019-01-23T16:45:55Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I find it appalling that some posters in this thread believe that they should be social pariahs for wearing MAGA hats or supporting the President of the United States. What is the message we should be sending to kids? That there is no free debate in the country and everyone has to be a good liberal? I think the takeaway from this incident is not so much that these kids should be social pariahs, but that this sort of situation is what happens when the president constantly demonizes half of the population of the country and inflames his supporters to share his hatred. The MAGA hats identify those that support the messaging of the president, which is a message of hatred of those that aren’t like them. Like them meaning liberal, diverse, not Trump supporters. When leadership foments hatred among its followers, bad things can and will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/185 "2019-01-23T16:55:27Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > The MAGA hats identify those that support the messaging of the president, which is a message of hatred of those that aren’t like them. Some of them were wearing MAGA hoodies as well. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/186 "2019-01-23T16:56:27Z")
I hadn’t previously realized how easily Trump supporters could be spurred to violence by - _ssshhhh_ - [sub]loud noises.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/187 "2019-01-23T17:03:19Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I think the takeaway from this incident is not so much that these kids should be social pariahs, but that this sort of situation is what happens when the president constantly demonizes half of the population of the country and inflames his supporters to share his hatred. The MAGA hats identify those that support the messaging of the president, which is a message of hatred of those that aren’t like them. Like them meaning liberal, diverse, not Trump supporters. When leadership foments hatred among its followers, bad things can and will happen. But when your side demonizes the other half of the country, to the point of saying that supporting the President is beyond reasoned debate, then that is okay? If a person in 2010 had showed up at a pro-choice rally with a “Hope and Change” hat supporting Obama, would you condemn that as well? Remember how Obama said that half of the country were dumb rednecks who just cling to guns and religion? How very hateful. Of course not, because you politically support Obama and do not politically support Trump. Only now, because Trump really really pisses you off does it mean that it is not socially acceptable to support the President of the United States. That is shocking to me. This type of stuff will just ratchet up the division in this country to an 11. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/188 "2019-01-23T17:04:23Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Maybe he could have handled in a different or better way in hindsight, but he is 16 YEARS OLD! I find it appalling that some posters in this thread believe that they should be social pariahs for wearing MAGA hats or supporting the President of the United States. What is the message we should be sending to kids? That there is no free debate in the country and everyone has to be a good liberal? Tamir Rice was 12 years old when a cop rolled up on the scene and shot him dead. This particular level of concern is almost never shown by conservative commentators for black kids in the school-to-prison pipeline (or, for that matter, those shot by the cops); it is exclusively reserved for rich white kids wearing MAGA gear at a misogynist rally who behave like shitty little bigots and then get called on it. Newsflash: if you go out in public wearing MAGA gear, you are explicitly endorsing the policy of the President. That policy is, currently, _incredibly fucking evil_ - discriminating against trans people, trying to end asylum applications to the US, and forcing hundreds of thousands to go without pay for upwards of a month to strongarm political opponents into funding a giant, stupid, pointless monument to racism. It’s particularly tactless to show that off in Washington DC, the place most affected by the government shutdown. These kids aren’t going to be social pariahs. Their community is apparently cool with [pictures like this](https://www.thedailybeast.com/covington-catholic-teen-on-fox-and-friends-blackface-is-school-spirit); I have no doubt they’re going to be just fuckin’ fine with MAGA gear. In their own community, they’ll face little to no backlash, because it’s the kind of community where “Trump invited us to the white house and we said yes” is a mark of pride, not a mark of shame. Outside that community, among rational people (yeah, I’ll just say it - any Trump voter who isn’t super-wealthy and shamelessly in it for self-interest is not rational or sensible), they can expect blowback. That’s a good thing - Trump is not a normal president, republican politics haven’t been “normal” since the TEA Party, and support for Trump is actively dangerous to a great many people. Is it fair that they serve as idols of all the ways privileged rich white men get advantages? Probably not. I mean, they are basically tailor-made to showcase all those ways (who the fuck hears “your kid was involved in a shitty, bigoted, racist mob” and thinks, “Fuck, better hire a PR team!”?!), but it’s not their fault that they remind us so perfectly of the most infuriating things about Brett Kavanaugh, Donald Trump, [Ethan Couch](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch), and how fundamentally fucking different their experience in life (and often death, in the latter cases) is than that of people like Freddie Grey, Tamir Rice, and [Janissa Valdez](https://www.ajc.com/news/national/texas-officer-appears-body-slam-middle-school-girl-shocking-viral-video/Y6CqiTE0sgZtm0pjjP6heI/). And given that their punishment for forming a shitheaded mob boils down to “some threats on twitter” and their reward - their _ **reward** _ for acting like terrible fucking human beings! - involves getting invited onto national television to tell their side of the story… My sympathy cup is empty. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/189 "2019-01-23T17:05:19Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Remember how Obama said that half of the country were dumb rednecks who just cling to guns and religion? Of course not, since I have a functional memory and Obama did not say that. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/190 "2019-01-23T17:07:33Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I find it appalling that some posters in this thread believe that they should be social pariahs for wearing MAGA hats or supporting the President of the United States. What is the message we should be sending to kids? That there is no free debate in the country and everyone has to be a good liberal? 16 year olds do stupid things, sure. I was 16 once myself. But I never would have supported anyone has abhorrent as Individual One. Part of a “free debate” is hearing from others how obnoxious your behavior is. And yes, if you wear a MAGA hat around town, you certainly may become a social pariah. They don’t have to be “good liberals.” I’d be satisfied if there were some “good conservatives” left. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/191 "2019-01-23T17:09:13Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Remember how Obama said that half of the country were dumb rednecks who just cling to guns and religion? No, but I remember the time you wildly misquoted him, because it happened just a few minutes ago. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/192 "2019-01-23T17:09:54Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But when your side demonizes the other half of the country, to the point of saying that supporting the President is beyond reasoned debate, then that is okay? > > If a person in 2010 had showed up at a pro-choice rally with a “Hope and Change” hat supporting Obama, would you condemn that as well? Remember how Obama said that half of the country were dumb rednecks who just cling to guns and religion? How very hateful. > > Of course not, because you politically support Obama and do not politically support Trump. Only now, because Trump really really pisses you off does it mean that it is not socially acceptable to support the President of the United States. > > That is shocking to me. This type of stuff will just ratchet up the division in this country to an 11. Oh bullshit. Obama never ever said anything about conservatives like Trump says about liberals and Democrats every day. There is no comparison. This is not both sides. If you cannot see how Trump is unlike every other president before him then there is no point in discussing this. Trying to compare right now with anything that happened during Obama’s tenure is just delusional. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/193 "2019-01-23T17:10:48Z")
> [@Barack Obama](#): > > You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. You can dislike that characterization, but can you call it wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/194 "2019-01-23T17:12:58Z")
Or hateful? Not at all. Politically inadvisable, but there is no hate being expressed there. Unlike what comes out of 45s twitter hole on a daily basis towards Democrats and liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/195 "2019-01-23T17:15:57Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You can dislike that characterization, but can you call it wrong? Well, yes. He’s not calling them “dumb” or “rednecks.” > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by UltraVires > Remember how Obama said that half of the country were dumb rednecks who just cling to guns and religion? ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/196 "2019-01-23T17:18:22Z")
I’m still confused about the right’s response to this video and what is taken out of context. Even after seeing other parts of the video, I don’t see how this changes what we saw in the viral part of the video. Did the native American walk up to the kid and start banging the drum in his face? Or did the kid walk up to the native American? I could care less about the confrontation between the kids and the Hebrew Israelites… or that the native americans walked up towards the kids banging drums. Now if the native American walked up to the kid and started banging his drum two inches from his nose, I could then see how this video was taken out of context. Is that what happened? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/197 "2019-01-23T17:18:53Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, yes, Kanye West is a bigot. Did you not hear him saying “slavery is a choice”? And when everyone tells him that what he’s doing supports racism, he doesn’t care. He even said about Trump “racism isn’t a dealbreaker.” The guy has been acting like a racist lately. > > His only saving grace are people saying he’s just so out of touch that he doesn’t understand the implications of what he’s saying. Or, yes, that his mental illness and refusal to take the drugs are leaving him vulnerable to irrational thoughts. The guy largely doesn’t make sense anymore. > > There’s a reason why he’s gone from a guy that black people respect to being considered an Uncle Tom. An Uncle Tom? Really? A black person has a non-leftist approved point of view and now it’s all right to call them an Uncle Tom? And supporting the right or the president is now worthy of being targeted with doxxing and death threats? C’mon now. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/198 "2019-01-23T17:23:26Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But when your side demonizes the other half of the country, to the point of saying that supporting the President is beyond reasoned debate, then that is okay? > > If a person in 2010 had showed up at a pro-choice rally with a “Hope and Change” hat supporting Obama, would you condemn that as well? Remember how Obama said that half of the country were dumb rednecks who just cling to guns and religion? How very hateful. IIRC he was chastised for it, regretted it and did not repeat it. The result was to indeed not assign ill will to his message or symbols. Except for some people that think that that grasping that ‘whataboutism’ straw makes an argument. Not. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/199 "2019-01-23T17:23:48Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Well, yes. He’s not calling them “dumb” or “rednecks.” Nor did he say “half of the country” is like that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/200 "2019-01-23T17:29:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > IIRC he was chastised for it, regretted it and did not repeat it. Because it was bad electoral politics, as honesty often is, not because he was wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210.md?page=11)