# Has the media misrepresented the incident with the Covington Cathlic kids? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210 "2019-01-22T17:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/301 "2019-01-24T04:25:10Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …nope. I don’t make wagers and would politely refrain you asking me that question ever again. > > And no a major publication is not going to lose a libel lawsuit and they aren’t going to settle regarding this. If you actually believe this not to be the case: would you care to share some examples of major publications that you think have crossed the line? Refrain noted and acknowledged. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/302 "2019-01-24T04:39:26Z")
Would someone please provide some link to something that shows the native american walking up and banging his drum two inches from the kid? I’m hung up on this point. None of the pro-kids arguments make any sense to me without knowing that fact. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/303 "2019-01-24T04:46:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > In several places I’ve seen it likened to Orwell’s “two minutes hate”. I find the comparison apt. Ahem. “Lock her up!”? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/304 "2019-01-24T04:50:11Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s telling you don’t actually quote it directly. I absolutely did quote you directly. Didn’t you click my link to your own post, which is what I was quoting? > [@octopus](#): > > If a subset a of a class b were treating another subset violently would you or would you not argue that the state has a legitimate role in preventing or considering the prevention of that violence or exploitation? Sure, but it should do so by enacting and enforcing laws against violent behavior. The government is not entitled to ban cultural symbols just because it considers them ideological markers of a bad attitude. Likewise, I think the government has a legitimate role in preventing and punishing the violence committed by numerous Trump supporters against immigrants, people of color, and innocent randos that they’ve cast as the villains of their conspiracy theories. But I would never claim that the government has any right to ban the wearing of MAGA hats. That still doesn’t make it wrong to **criticize** the wearing of MAGA hats, though. > [@Banquet Bear](#): > > And no a major publication is not going to lose a libel lawsuit and they aren’t going to settle regarding this. Heck, AFAICT even Alex Jones and InfoWars have yet to lose any of the lawsuits against them for their [blatantly false and vicious fabrications about innocent people that have inspired long-lasting persecution of their victims](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/30/us/politics/alex-jones-infowars-sandy-hook-lawsuit.html): > [@](#): > > On his radio broadcast and in videos, Mr. Jones for years spread bogus claims that the [Sandy Hook] shooting was a “false flag,” an event staged by the government as part of an effort to confiscate Americans’ firearms, and that the parents of the children killed were “crisis actors.” […] > > Mr. Jones showed his audience Mr. Pozner’s personal information and maps to addresses associated with his family […] > > Subsequent death threats and harassment have forced the Pozner family to move seven times. They currently live in hiding. […] > > […] a separate defamation case brought by Marcel Fontaine, who was falsely identified on the Infowars website as the gunman in the Parkland, Fla., school shooting in February. > > After the Infowars report, Mr. Fontaine was subjected to months of harassment, including threats at his workplace. > [@Dale Sams](#): > > This bullshit call-out culture shit has got to stop. “I want names!! Ruin these fuckers lives!! Ruin their parents lives!!” You know, if conservatives really want this bullshit call-out culture shit to stop inciting angry folks to ruin innocent people’s lives, maybe they should try persuading more of their fellow conservatives to stop supporting the likes of InfoWars. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/305 "2019-01-24T04:51:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I absolutely did quote you directly. Didn’t you click my link to your own post, which is what I was quoting? > Sure, but it should do so by enacting and enforcing laws against violent behavior. The government is not entitled to ban cultural symbols just because it considers them ideological markers of a bad attitude. > > Likewise, I think the government has a legitimate role in preventing and punishing the violence committed by numerous Trump supporters against immigrants, people of color, and innocent randos that they’ve cast as the villains of their conspiracy theories. But I would never claim that the government has any right to ban the wearing of MAGA hats. That still doesn’t make it wrong to **criticize** the wearing of MAGA hats, though. > Heck, AFAICT even Alex Jones and InfoWars have yet to lose any of the lawsuits against them for their [blatantly false and vicious fabrications about innocent people that have inspired long-lasting persecution of their victims](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/30/us/politics/alex-jones-infowars-sandy-hook-lawsuit.html): > > You know, if conservatives really want this bullshit call-out culture shit to stop inciting angry folks to ruin innocent people’s lives, maybe they should try persuading more of their fellow conservatives to stop supporting the likes of InfoWars. Im not conservative and I don’t know any. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/306 "2019-01-24T04:57:34Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Im not conservative and I don’t know any. Some folks have all the luck. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/307 "2019-01-24T05:00:25Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Would someone please provide some link to something that shows the native american walking up and banging his drum two inches from the kid? I’m hung up on this point. None of the pro-kids arguments make any sense to me without knowing that fact. Not a matter of measurement, it is the quality of the act! “In the face” is the quality of the act, and the essence of the attack. Oftimes, neither of the participants actually define the moment, but the “in the face”-ness can be detected by a keen and acute observer. As witness herein: the simple act of watching video and accompanying, if wildly divergent, testimony. For the keen witted and sharp, the clarity is complete, they know to a fine point that, yes, indeed, he was “in his face” with his drum. They have no shared perception of actual, measured distance? It is of no consequence, the quality of the act, its “face-ness”, is clear to the wise observer, but may be entirely hidden from louts like you and I. I am told that such subjective awareness can extend to clothing: to the intelligent and perceptive, it is readily apparent, only dullards such as myself cannot see. Alas. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/308 "2019-01-24T05:05:30Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Would someone please provide some link to something that shows the native american walking up and banging his drum two inches from the kid? I’m hung up on this point. None of the pro-kids arguments make any sense to me without knowing that fact. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZTDIoywwGk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZTDIoywwGk) At 8:45 you can see Phillips approach the group. I don’t see an angle where he seems to be right in someones face. Maybe when the camera turned away? I dunno. I don’t even particularly see Sandmann ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/309 "2019-01-24T05:17:23Z")
Well, it seems like [one guy’s lost his job](https://www.thewrap.com/vulture-writer-on-covington-students-i-just-want-these-people-to-die-simple-as-that/) due to calling for the death of the kids and their parents. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/310 "2019-01-24T05:26:14Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I absolutely did quote you directly. Didn’t you click my link to your own post, which is what I was quoting? > Sure, but it should do so by enacting and enforcing laws against violent behavior. The government is not entitled to ban cultural symbols just because it considers them ideological markers of a bad attitude. > > Likewise, I think the government has a legitimate role in preventing and punishing the violence committed by numerous Trump supporters against immigrants, people of color, and innocent randos that they’ve cast as the villains of their conspiracy theories. But I would never claim that the government has any right to ban the wearing of MAGA hats. That still doesn’t make it wrong to **criticize** the wearing of MAGA hats, though. > Heck, AFAICT even Alex Jones and InfoWars have yet to lose any of the lawsuits against them for their [blatantly false and vicious fabrications about innocent people that have inspired long-lasting persecution of their victims](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/30/us/politics/alex-jones-infowars-sandy-hook-lawsuit.html): > > You know, if conservatives really want this bullshit call-out culture shit to stop inciting angry folks to ruin innocent people’s lives, maybe they should try persuading more of their fellow conservatives to stop supporting the likes of InfoWars. Look, I’m pretty pro-free speech but even I admit that Germany has the right to prohibit the swastika for example. I think it’s unnecessary but I understand. I was saying I don’t have a problem with the general principle that government action affects different religious groups disproportionately. I’d extend that principle. I don’t care if some government action affects any group disproportionately. Ultimately, it depends on the details if I disagree with the specifics. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/311 "2019-01-24T05:33:12Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Refrain noted and acknowledged. …thank you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/312 "2019-01-24T05:34:41Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Look, I’m pretty pro-free speech but even I admit that Germany has the right to prohibit the swastika for example. If we’re talking about what a sovereign nation is **legally** entitled to do, sure Germany has the right to prohibit the swastika. But as far as civil-liberties principles are concerned, I don’t think prohibiting the swastika is the right policy, and I don’t endorse Germany’s choice to do so. Still less do I endorse attempts in France to ban the far more defensible use of traditional Muslim garments such as the headscarf. And of course, as I noted, banning MAGA hats in the US is right out. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/313 "2019-01-24T05:50:12Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, it seems like [one guy’s lost his job](https://www.thewrap.com/vulture-writer-on-covington-students-i-just-want-these-people-to-die-simple-as-that/) due to calling for the death of the kids and their parents. Not surprising. But that’s an interesting [link](https://www.thewrap.com/national-review-pulls-article-saying-covington-students-might-as-well-have-just-spit-on-the-cross/) in your cite about the flagship conservative periodical _National Review_, considering how some posters here have been trying to make the issue of overreaction and excessive outrage at the Covington students all about liberals: > [@](#): > > The National Review pulled down an article on Sunday attacking the students at Covington Catholic High School, which said their behavior toward Native American elder Nathan Phillips was comparable to spitting on the cross. > > “They mock a serious, frail-looking older man and gloat in their momentary role as Roman soldiers to his Christ. “‘Bullying’ is a worn-out word and doesn’t convey the full extent of the evil on display here,” National Review Deputy Managing Editor Nicholas Frankovich said in the original piece. “As for the putatively Catholic students from Covington, they might as well have just spit on the cross and got it over with.” > [@doorhinge](#): > > the lame stream media’s attacks on a teenager Hmm, I guess “lame stream media” includes the _National Review_ now. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/314 "2019-01-24T07:39:38Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Would you like a friendly wager as to whether or not a major publication will lose a libel lawsuit or settle out of court regarding this situation? I mean, I’ll take those odds. PM me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Plutonium\_Kid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Plutonium\_Kid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Plutonium_Kid)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/315 "2019-01-24T07:55:37Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > What is it that you think you are accomplishing with this dictionary definition? Can you tell me the time stamp of the video where the attack occurred? He’s reminding you that your overblown rhetoric is entirely disconnected from reality. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Plutonium\_Kid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8baadc/32.png) [@The\_Plutonium\_Kid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Plutonium_Kid)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/316 "2019-01-24T07:58:12Z")
> [@nate](#): > > Would someone please provide some link to something that shows the native american walking up and banging his drum two inches from the kid? I’m hung up on this point. None of the pro-kids arguments make any sense to me without knowing that fact. The videos aren’t hard to find. If you can’t find them, it can only be because you don’t want to find them. ---
**Author:** ![Elmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e9a140/32.png) [@Elmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmore)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/317 "2019-01-24T08:31:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Has anyone pointed that that is silly because we are talking about a group of students that decided to troll with MAGA hats, sweaters, and other paraphernalia? Point being that this is not a lone person, but guys with a “message” to deliver. Not true. Sandmann has become the focal point for soy latté twitter’s hysterical outrage. He’s the one getting the death threats. Incidentally, isn’t it horrifying that literally _thousands_ of _verified_ users with, collectively, _tens of millions_ of followers can wish violence and death on a child with utter impunity for the “crime” of being a cheeky little shit? World War III can’t come fast enough. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/318 "2019-01-24T08:47:33Z")
> [@Elmore](#): > > Incidentally, isn’t it horrifying that literally **_thousands_ of _verified_ users** with, collectively, _tens of millions_ of followers can wish violence \*\*and \*\*death on a child with utter impunity for the “crime” of being a cheeky little shit? …cite for the bolded please. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/319 "2019-01-24T11:15:22Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Look, I’m pretty pro-free speech Some of your best friends are talkers. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/320 "2019-01-24T12:24:25Z")
> [@The\_Plutonium\_Kid](#): > > The videos aren’t hard to find. If you can’t find them, it can only be because you don’t want to find them. In the time it took to make this post you could have just provided a link but nope, you just want to assume my intentions are dishonest and dismiss my question. I’ve searched but couldn’t find one so I’m asking for help because it’s obvious people assume this native american walked up into the smirking kid’s personal space and continued to bang his drum. I’m wondering where this assumption came from, because if the kid walked into the protester’s personal space it verifies the media’s initial reaction was correct. My mind is still open on the matter unlike most in this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210.md?page=17)