# Has the media misrepresented the incident with the Covington Cathlic kids? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210 "2019-01-22T17:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/321 "2019-01-24T12:28:02Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And supporting the right or the president is now worthy of being targeted with doxxing and death threats? C’mon now. True - we should save those things for women who speak up about, well, anything. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/322 "2019-01-24T13:22:52Z")
> [@nate](#): > > you could have just provided a link but nope,… I’ve searched but couldn’t find one… because it’s obvious people assume this native american walked up into the smirking kid’s personal space and continued to bang his drum. I’m wondering where this assumption came from This “assumption” came from the original 4-minute clip which went viral and started the whole story. It’s the first link listed on youtube when you search “Covington native american”. Here’s the link: Watch it carefully,in case you are the only person in this thread who hasn’t seen it yet. At 0:20 seconds into the clip, the native american starts walking towards the kid, who is not moving. At 0:29 seconds, he is standing face to face, maybe 12 inches between their noses, beating the drum in the kid’s face, holding it with his left hand about 1 inch from the kid’s body At 0:31 seconds, the drum-beater makes physical contact with the kid, when both the drum and his left hand briefly touch the kid’s shoulder. It’s brief, harmless contact. But it is definitely infringing on the kid’s personal space. The drummer is the one doing all the action…The kid remains stiff, standing absolutely still, in no way threatening the drummer,( but,yes, he does stand his ground and maintain his weird smirking expression.) ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/323 "2019-01-24T13:53:00Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > This “assumption” came from the original 4-minute clip which went viral and started the whole story. It’s the first link listed on youtube when you search “Covington native american”. > Here’s the link: > > > Watch it carefully,in case you are the only person in this thread who hasn’t seen it yet. > At 0:20 seconds into the clip, the native american starts walking towards the kid, who is not moving. The kid is not in the clip at 20 seconds. I’m not sure how you can make this assertion. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/324 "2019-01-24T14:19:10Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The kid is not in the clip at 20 seconds. I’m not sure how you can make this assertion. Yeah, the clip shows the native American walking up and then skips immediately to the viral part of the video. It doesn’t show who stepped into who’s personal space. If the kid stepped up to the protester, the kid is a dick. If the protester stepped up inches from the unmoving kid, the protester is a dick. But I’ve yet to see what happened in those moments. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/325 "2019-01-24T14:25:41Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The kid is not in the clip at 20 seconds. I’m not sure how you can make this assertion. Your’e right. But so what? Looking at the clip again, I realize that it’s been edited, and the scene I mentioned at 0:20 is cut-and-pasted from a later scene, starting at 2:30. At 2:34 the kid appears again, from a different angle. And he’s still standing motionless, while the drummer actively pushes the crowd aside and approaches the smirking kid, before making physical contact with him at 2:44. I’m not saying that the kid isn’t being an ass, (and I definitely wonder where their teachers were and why they didn’t intervene 10 minutes earlier). I’m just responding to **nate** ’s question above, about who approached whom. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/326 "2019-01-24T14:38:07Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Your’e right. But so what? > Looking at the clip again, I realize that it’s been edited, and the scene I mentioned at 0:20 is cut-and-pasted from a later scene, starting at 2:30. > > At 2:34 the kid appears again, from a different angle. And he’s still standing motionless, while the drummer actively pushes the crowd aside and approaches the smirking kid, before making physical contact with him at 2:44. > I’m not saying that the kid isn’t being an ass, (and I definitely wonder where their teachers were and why they didn’t intervene 10 minutes earlier). > I’m just responding to **nate** ’s question above, about who approached whom. OK, thanks for the info. Man, seeing it from a few different angles makes the kid seem a lot further from the drummer than the original clip. It doesn’t look near as provocative from the other angles. The viral clip, to me, makes the kid look like a dick, but seeing the part in the video you referenced changes my mind on that. Now the whole story just seems blown out of proportion (not that it was that big to begin with), and yeah, I blame the quick-twitch media for that. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/327 "2019-01-24T15:01:19Z")
> [@Elmore](#): > > Not true. Sandmann has become the focal point for soy latté twitter’s hysterical outrage. He’s the one getting the death threats. And I’m not saying that, I’m already on the record that one kid is not the problem, I was referring to the group and the lack of reasonable adult supervision. It should not had to be said, but apparently many do think that by not declaring the obvious: that I don’t agree with those death threats, that therefore me or others that are critical of the poisonous message a group of kids choose to distribute are in agreement. > [@Elmore](#): > > Incidentally, isn’t it horrifying that literally _thousands_ of _verified_ users with, collectively, _tens of millions_ of followers can wish violence and death on a child with utter impunity for the “crime” of being a cheeky little shit? World War III can’t come fast enough. I already posted evidence of how the right wing sources are falsely assassinating the character of Mr. Phillips, and knowing the past history of the extreme right wing, it is 100% certain that death threats have also gone to the Native Americans involved. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/328 "2019-01-24T15:04:18Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Your’e right. But so what? > Looking at the clip again, I realize that it’s been edited, and the scene I mentioned at 0:20 is cut-and-pasted from a later scene, starting at 2:30. Because you are misrepresenting what the clip shows in order to show the man in a less favorable light. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/329 "2019-01-24T17:09:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Freedom of speech does not mean you cannot be criticized. The only reason freedom of speech works is that you can be criticized. Then, ideally the best argument wins. I couldn’t agree more. > [@BigT](#): > > These kids can support the President. They can also be criticized for supporting said president. That is freedom of speech. I couldn’t agree more. > [@BigT](#): > > These kids can show what support for this particular president means, by being full on bigots on display. And we can criticize them for being bigots. That is also freedom of speech. Buzzer goes off. Of course it is freedom of speech to call these kids bigots. But by doing so you have poisoned the well and shifted the argument away from the merits and now we have to argue about whether these kids are “bigots.” This whole thread is attempting to determine who was at fault: was it the kids, was it the Black Hebrews, or did this old Indian come into the fray and heightened tensions, whether he meant to do so or not? Or was nobody at fault, that this was just a political rally where most people on all sides protested peacefully and a handful of people acted improperly? In this, and like almost all debates, when you throw the word “bigot” in there it shifts the debate so that we cannot have the “best argument” winning, we have the best name calling winning. Maybe another thread would be a good place to have an argument as to what it means to be bigoted or whether wearing a MAGA hat or supporting Trump is bigoted. But the whole thing is a hijack of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/330 "2019-01-24T17:36:07Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I couldn’t agree more. > > I couldn’t agree more. > > Buzzer goes off. Of course it is freedom of speech to call these kids bigots. But by doing so you have poisoned the well and shifted the argument away from the merits and now we have to argue about whether these kids are “bigots.” > > This whole thread is attempting to determine who was at fault: was it the kids, was it the Black Hebrews, or did this old Indian come into the fray and heightened tensions, whether he meant to do so or not? Or was nobody at fault, that this was just a political rally where most people on all sides protested peacefully and a handful of people acted improperly? > > In this, and like almost all debates, when you throw the word “bigot” in there it shifts the debate so that we cannot have the “best argument” winning, we have the best name calling winning. Maybe another thread would be a good place to have an argument as to what it means to be bigoted or whether wearing a MAGA hat or supporting Trump is bigoted. > > But the whole thing is a hijack of this thread. I’m not sure why we need to assign “fault” at all. No one was hurt. Everything is okay. We might as well talk about the optics of a teenager wearing a hat that signifies racism and control of our government by a foreign power. That seems like a more interesting discussion. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/331 "2019-01-24T17:52:18Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Hmm, I guess “lame stream media” includes the _National Review_ now. It has for some time now. They use snooty big words and sometimes even post an article about Der Trumpenführer that isn’t a butt-sniffing panegyric. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/332 "2019-01-24T18:37:58Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m not sure why we need to assign “fault” at all. No one was hurt. Everything is okay. Except for the death threats, the calls for expulsion and the closing down of the school, and the accusations and outing of a 16 year old kid who did nothing wrong, then you are right. Everything is okay. > [@Procrustus](#): > > We might as well talk about the optics of a teenager wearing a hat that signifies racism and control of our government by a foreign power. That seems like a more interesting discussion. Then why don’t you join one of the other hundreds of threads where you guys make those ridiculous allegations and let us discuss the OP here. Just a polite request, not meant to be junior modding. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/333 "2019-01-24T18:41:32Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m not sure why we need to assign “fault” at all. No one was hurt. Everything is okay. In the same sense that Christine Ford wasn’t hurt, so everything is okay. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/334 "2019-01-24T18:42:52Z")
What am I, or anyone here on the SDMB, or the Democratic party, or liberals in general supposed to do about random internet morons making death threats? What have you or the GOP done about the death threats sent to Dr. Ford? People on the internet are often assholes. I will agree with that, however what solution are you looking for here? What can anyone do that you would then say “ok my outrage is now under control”? Edited to add: Shodan, can you point to any posts of yours decrying the death threats against Dr. Ford? Because your outrage seems very selective about death threats. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/335 "2019-01-24T18:56:27Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > What am I, or anyone here on the SDMB, or the Democratic party, or liberals in general supposed to do about random internet morons making death threats? [Clearly, we liberals have not done enough to prevent our leftist pals from murdering opponents.](https://abcnews.go.com/US/extremist-related-killings-2018-overwhelmingly-linked-wing-movements/story?id=60568464) I’ll promise to step up the condemnation in 2019, but guns are just so easy to buy… ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/336 "2019-01-24T18:58:40Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/L8kxeFb84iw/maxresdefault.jpg "The Truth - Nathan Philips / Covington Catholic Kids") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8kxeFb84iw) This video has a clearer view of the moments before the Phillips/Sandmann standoff and it’s pretty clear that Sandmann was basically standing in one place and Phillips was moving towards him. I also think that even if Sandmann had deliberately blocked Phillips, the latter had no business banging the drum inches from his face for such a long time when he clearly could have moved on. As to the OP, yeah the early media reporting was very poor, credulously believing Phillips’s story which at best was highly misleading. I hope that quality media organizations will study this fiasco and make sure it doesn’t happen again. However I think the bigger issue is that even on the worst interpretation of Sandmann’s behavior the fury and venom that was directed at him was absurdly out of proportion to what he was accused of doing. Honestly, I am still not sure I understand it. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/337 "2019-01-24T19:20:21Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > What am I, or anyone here on the SDMB, or the Democratic party, or liberals in general supposed to do about random internet morons making death threats? What have you or the GOP done about the death threats sent to Dr. Ford? > > People on the internet are often assholes. I will agree with that, however what solution are you looking for here? What can anyone do that you would then say “ok my outrage is now under control”? The hypocrisy burns. I’m going to use this anytime Trump is blamed because of some random act of violence. Second, I didn’t say that you or anyone else here had to take proactive steps to stop these things. I was responding to the statement that no harm was done. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/338 "2019-01-24T19:24:42Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > The hypocrisy burns. I’m going to use this anytime Trump is blamed because of some random act of violence. I’m not certain why you would, other than to perplex readers who are wondering why you’re equating two completely dissimilar things. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/339 "2019-01-24T19:31:09Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > [https://youtu.be/L8kxeFb84iw?t=250](https://youtu.be/L8kxeFb84iw?t=250) > This video has a clearer view of the moments before the Phillips/Sandmann standoff and it’s pretty clear that Sandmann was basically standing in one place and Phillips was moving towards him. I also think that even if Sandmann had deliberately blocked Phillips, the latter had no business banging the drum inches from his face for such a long time when he clearly could have moved on. > > As to the OP, yeah the early media reporting was very poor, credulously believing Phillips’s story which at best was highly misleading. I hope that quality media organizations will study this fiasco and make sure it doesn’t happen again. > > However I think the bigger issue is that even on the worst interpretation of Sandmann’s behavior the fury and venom that was directed at him was absurdly out of proportion to what he was accused of doing. Honestly, I am still not sure I understand it. I absolutely agree. Two observations: 1. The only reason that Phillips gets a pass on his aggressive/annoying behavior is because he engaged in Native American/Indian religious culture. I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that if this had been, say, a Baptist from Manassas, VA getting two to six inches away from someone and praying for their soul, we would have most posters here calling it an assault and stating that the other person could use force to expel them from their “personal space.” By any objective account, you don’t beat a drum in someone’s face, especially at a rally when tensions are high. Phillips deserves most of the blame here, IMHO, even if his intentions were pure. 1. I couldn’t agree more with your last paragraph. Let’s say that all of the initial assumptions were true and we have a 16 year old arrogant little fuckhead smirking at a peace loving American Indian who is practicing his religious ceremony. The worst that could be said about that is that it is very rude. And if we are going to close down all of the schools that contain rude 16 year olds then that would amount to a destruction of the education system in this country. As an aside, what a terrible thing it must be to grow up in this age where everything is captured on social media. There is no freedom to grow up and do stupid things (in general, not that this kid did anything wrong). Imagine that when you are 19 and do a keg stand at a party and forty years later it is archived on TwitterInstaBook for everyone to see at your Senate hearing to become a cabinet member. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210/340 "2019-01-24T19:32:57Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Then why don’t you join one of the other hundreds of threads where you guys make those ridiculous allegations and let us discuss the OP here. Just a polite request, not meant to be junior modding. There is at least one other thread about the incident itself. This thread, according to the OP, is whether the media misrepresented the incident. (as far as I can tell) Part of the media coverage has been “the kid in the MAGA hat did something wrong.” I think it’s fair to discuss the optics of wearing such a hat. But, I’ll take your polite request to heart and bow out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-media-misrepresented-the-incident-with-the-covington-cathlic-kids/828210.md?page=18)