# Has the Pope lost touch? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 16, 2002, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546 "2002-10-16T18:43:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BZ00000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/47e85d/32.png) [@BZ00000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BZ00000)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/1 "2002-10-16T18:43:25Z")
Quote: "The Pope said he hoped renewed interest in the centuries-old rosary would help bring peace to a post-September 11 world and harmony to the Holy Land. " [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021016/wl\_nm/pope\_dc\_5](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20021016/wl_nm/pope_dc_5) Yes, all the problems of the world will be solved with the rosary. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/2 "2002-10-16T19:11:10Z")
How old is the Pope anyway? I’ve lost track. It has seemed to me that JPII has always been a bit conservative and resistant to change, so I’m a little surprised that he has changed the rosary at all. As to his statement, well, I look at it as basic religious rhetoric. I don’t know that he’s lost touch, although I wonder how much longer he’ll be around. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/3 "2002-10-16T19:23:03Z")
BZ00000 get on your knees and thank God this isn’t the Pit. I really don’t like arrogant people like yourself. The point is that there are a lot of people outside your garage that actually think that praying makes a difference. Perhaps they are mistaken but in the absence of good evidence you should at least give them the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/4 "2002-10-16T19:29:57Z")
BZ00000 get on your knees and thank God this isn’t the Pit. I really don’t like arrogant people like yourself. The point is that there are a lot of people outside your garage that actually think that praying makes a difference. Perhaps they are mistaken but in the absence of good evidence you should at least give them the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/5 "2002-10-16T19:39:15Z")
He is very old, and more to the point he is very unwell. He is also very conservative. That said, I’m sure he does believe that people saying prayers (which is essentially the function of the rosary, as I understand it - surely Kirkland or tomndebb will be along to explain better) will help bring about more peace. Is this out of touch? I suppose it depends entirely on whether or not you believe prayer has any effect on the world at large. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/6 "2002-10-16T19:46:22Z")
Personally, I find it more amazing that he’s suggesting changes to the Rosary. Being that this is a very sacred thing to Catholics. I’m of the belief that prayer is personal-if it does nothing else but bring comfort and peace and serenity to the one praying, then it is a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/7 "2002-10-16T19:48:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, all the problems of the world will be solved with the rosary. Well, systematically applied around the necks of the right people…Yeah, I could see that. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/8 "2002-10-16T19:49:15Z")
The rosary is basically use to pray Sister Coyote. Through 12 stations the congregation follows the passion of Jesus Christ (now I Believe they are 15). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/9 "2002-10-16T20:31:49Z")
Estilicon: The Rosary is not the same thing as the Stations of the Cross. The Stations of the Cross is a set of prayers commemorating each of the fourteen “stations,” or events, that occurred as Christ was crucified, beginning with His being condemned to die and ending with His body being laid in the sepulcher. The Rosary is a sequence of prayers focusing on fifteen (now 20!) pivotal events. Heretofore, the prayer was divided into the Joyful, Sorrowful, and Glorious Mysteries - five events in each category. Each event is meditated upon as the “Hail Mary” prayer is recited ten times; this is a “decade” of the rosary. “Saying the Rosary” usually means saying a single set of mysteries - Joyful on Mondays and Thursdays, and Sundays of Advent, Sorrowful on Tuesdays and Fridays and Sundays of Lent, and Glorious on Wednesdays, Saturdays, and Sundays of Ordinary Time. Saying a complete Rosary would involve all fifteen mysteries in each of the three sets, or 150 recitations of the Hail Mary prayer. As I recall, this was considered perfect because there were 150 Psalms. The innovation announced now adds five “Mysteries of Light” to the prayer, and revises the schedule of days on which each set should be said. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/10 "2002-10-16T20:33:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Guinastasia_ > Personally, I find it more amazing that he’s suggesting changes to the Rosary. Being that this is a very sacred thing to Catholics. The specifics are that the Pope is adding a fourth set of mysteries to the Rosary, intended to be prayed on Saturdays. (For the non-Catholics, the “mysteries” of the rosary are meditations on the life of Christ that walk through his conception to his ascension.) I’m not entirely clear on what the Rosary’s relationship is to the church, although off the top of my head, it’s a “traditional” prayer that the church gives strong credence to. However, even if it’s “official,” generally the form of prayer is not a moral matter, so it’s theoretically subject to change without harm. (Unlike, say, changing the Mass: if the Church decided to do away with the Eucharsitic portion, that would be bad.) Now, having said that, I’m still betting that a lot of Catholics will be darn confused as to why the Pope is advocating an addition. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/11 "2002-10-16T21:35:58Z")
The Pope is 82 years old. What he wants to add. [http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/16/pope.rosary/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/16/pope.rosary/index.html) > [@](#): > > Traditionally, Catholics are supposed to contemplate three periods, or mysteries, of Christ’s life as they recite the prayers: the joyous mysteries of his birth, the sorrowful mysteries of his crucifixion, and the glorious mysteries of his resurrection. > > On Wednesday, John Paul proposed adding another set of mysteries: the “mysteries of light,” which highlight five different periods of Christ’s life. > > They are: his baptism; the wedding feast at Cana, where according to the Bible, he transformed water into wine; his proclamation of the coming of the Kingdom of God; the Transfiguration, when God commanded the apostles to listen to Christ; and the institution of the Eucharist. > > \< snip \> > > Until now the Rosary’s five joyful mysteries were recited on Mondays and Thursdays, the five sorrowful mysteries on Tuesdays and Fridays, and the five glorious mysteries on Wednesdays, Saturdays, and Sundays. The five new mysteries will be used on Saturdays… Here’s the Apostolic Letter explaining it all. [http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=26458](http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=26458) ---
**Author:** ![JerseyDiamond](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyDiamond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyDiamond)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/12 "2002-10-16T22:15:43Z")
I agree with **carrot** 😃 Welcome to the board. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/13 "2002-10-17T01:03:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > **The Pope is 82 years old.** [Aging Pope ‘Just Blessing Everything In Sight,’ Say Concerned Handlers](http://www.theonion.com/onion3505/pope_blesses.html) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/14 "2002-10-17T14:39:02Z")
Heh. I [heart] the Onion. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/15 "2002-10-17T14:52:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\*The Pope is 82 years old. > > \*\* Watch it there, Duck Duck!!! ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/16 "2002-10-17T15:56:11Z")
I messed up, the rosary and the Via Crucis are two different things. I should start going to church again but I am still angry with G.O.D ™ when he apologizes I will become a good catholic again. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/17 "2002-10-17T16:08:50Z")
Actually, from what I read in the paper today, adding 5 Luminous Mysteries to the rosary seems rather progressive on the Pope’s part. Basically, he’s aware that Christians are (where’s that paper?!) being “drawn to non-Christian meditative techniques” and is proposing the rosary as a Christian, or at least Catholic, alternative. I’m not Catholic, nor will I ever be, and I’m certainly not a fan of this particular Pope, but it sounds like a very good idea to me. CJ ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/18 "2002-10-17T16:21:15Z")
The rosary is a meditative prayer as described by other posters. Even non-believers accept that meditative prayer can have beneficial effects for the person saying the prayer, promoting peace, harmony and well-being. The Pope is making a wider claim for the rosary, but it is not out of line with mainstream Christian thought about the power of prayer, or indeed with the position of other religions on the question. Certainly there is nothing to justify the sneering tone adopted by **BZ00000**. The rosary dates from the Thirteenth Century, and has been popular ever since. There are no doctrinal or theological issues raised by the change. One might question whether making a long prayer even longer is likely to make it more popular, but that’s another matter! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/19 "2002-10-17T16:42:56Z")
**Res** is right, this is going to confuse the living heck out of millions – specially, though not exclusively or necessarily, older Catholics. I certainly hope most parish priests will have enough sense to NOT implement the changes in a a way that makes some dear old _abuelitas_ feel obsolete (I know some priests will mess it up). As to the OP question, heck, the Pope IS the chief priest of a major religion. The spiritual IS his primary duty. So _of course_ he will recommend prayer as the cure for what ails us. To a committed religious believer prayer WOULD be among the primary components of any solution to the world’s problems. JP2 has always been fond of his Mariology so I’m not surprised he came up with a tweak to the Rosary. Looking at the new Mysteries, I get a strong impression that they tend to place emphasis on elements of the actual ministry of the Church and of reinforcing its font of authority (all events that reveal God, or that institute a Sacrament). Very in keeping with JP2’s theological bent. Putting them only on Saturdays – thus letting the 15 traditional mysteries remain more frequent – is a nice consideration to the traditionalists. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546/20 "2002-10-17T16:49:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UDS \* > \*\*One might question whether making a long prayer even longer is likely to make it more popular, but that’s another matter! \*\* As mentioned above, typically people concentrate on one set of mysteries and pray five decades. It’s less common to say decades for all mysteries in one sitting, so in typical use it wouldn’t be any longer. The mysteries, FTR: Joyful: The Annunciation (Mary accepts that she will bear Jesus) The Visitation (Mary visits Elizabeth, who is pregnant with John the Baptist) The Birth of Jesus The Presentation of Jesus in the Temple (per Jewish custom) The Finding of Jesus in the Temple (when He is 12 He stays behind and discusses scripture with learned folks in the temple) Sorrowful: The Agony in the Garden (Jesus prays as He knows He will be killed) The Scourging at the Pillar The Crowning with Thorns Jesus Carries His Cross Jesus Is Crucified and Dies on the Cross Glorious: The Resurrection of Our Lord from the Dead The Ascension of Our Lord into Heaven (40 days after resurrection) The Descent of the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles and Mary (Pentecost) The Assumption of Mary into Heaven (at the moment of her death she is assumed body and soul into heaven) Mary Is Crowned Queen of Heaven and Earth [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-pope-lost-touch/132546.md?page=2)