# Has the SDMB lost critical mass? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2007, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502 "2007-11-07T02:50:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/361 "2007-11-12T17:10:23Z")
[QUOTE=El Cid Viscoso] Anyone remember, how’s anyone supposed to forget? It’s like 9/11 for you people. [/QUOTE] 😃 Funniest reply of the month! ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/362 "2007-11-12T19:07:08Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Board outages, and times when you could barely post at lunch because everyone else in the world was trying to post, were a standard feature of Doper life back in the early part of the decade. [/QUOTE] And we liked it! Especially on 56K dialup! Yes, P2P has made the board more reliable, but like I said earlier, I thnk there’s other ways to raise revenue, such as payment for extra features. Also, consider Something Awful, which has far more members, but runs quite smoothly most of the time. SDMB: Free guest membership, $15 annual membership SA: No guest membership, $5 lifetime membership, payment for extra features. I don’t know what membership scheme generates more revenue, but SA doesn’t seem to have some of the problems that the SDMB has with regards to board reliability and the slow growth of its paid membership base. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/363 "2007-11-12T19:36:08Z")
[QUOTE=elmwood] And we liked it! Especially on 56K dialup! Yes, P2P has made the board more reliable, but like I said earlier, I thnk there’s other ways to raise revenue, such as payment for extra features. [/quote] Hell yeah - I was griping a few pages back about their failure to try other ways of raising money first, especially since they first started griping about the untenability of the board’s finances back in late 2000, IIRC, but didn’t go to pay-to-post until the spring of 2004. They had plenty of time to experiment, and did NOTHING. Until the day when they imposed the current system on us, that is. > [@](#): > > Also, consider Something Awful, which has far more members, but runs quite smoothly most of the time. > > SDMB: Free guest membership, $15 annual membership > SA: No guest membership, $5 lifetime membership, payment for extra features. > > I don’t know what membership scheme generates more revenue, but SA doesn’t seem to have some of the problems that the SDMB has with regards to board reliability and the slow growth of its paid membership base. More members, yes, but do they have a similar amount of member-generated content? All I know about it is that it’s a web comic. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/364 "2007-11-12T19:45:40Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] More members, yes, but do they have a similar amount of member-generated content? All I know about it is that it’s a web comic. [/QUOTE] You’re thinking of Something Positive. Something Awful is…hell, I don’t know what it is except a breeding ground for internet memes and assholes. But there is a _lot_ of user-generated content, for sure. It’s a community just like the SDMB is. ---
**Author:** ![Shelf\_stable\_at\_room\_temperatu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shelf\_stable\_at\_room\_temperatu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shelf_stable_at_room_temperatu)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/365 "2007-11-12T20:04:57Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] All the debates to be debated have been debated ad nauseum in Great Debates, for example. A newbie, however, might jump into the umpteenth iteration of the James Randi Challenge debate. Etc. [/QUOTE] Sorry, but you are wrong. I’m a newbie, didn’t realize all the topics had been done before, and still found them pointless and not worth adding to. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/366 "2007-11-13T00:52:24Z")
[QUOTE=Shelf stable at room temperatu] Sorry, but you are wrong. I’m a newbie, didn’t realize all the topics had been done before, and still found them pointless and not worth adding to. [/QUOTE] Perhaps, but the big question is whether you’re a newbie sock. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/367 "2007-11-13T01:02:35Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] You’re thinking of Something Positive. Something Awful is…hell, I don’t know what it is except a breeding ground for internet memes and assholes. But there is a _lot_ of user-generated content, for sure. It’s a community just like the SDMB is. [/QUOTE] You’re right, I got the names confused. Thanks for setting me straight. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/368 "2007-11-13T02:31:09Z")
Guys, I’ve always felt that there is one big gaping whole in the topics discussed on this board, and that is **business**. Sometimes political discussions lead to the topic of economics, and guys like **Same Stone** can speak fairly eruditely about that. But there is very little talk about marketing, management, etc. I’m an MBA, my specialty is marketing, and my opinion of how this board is managed as a product is this: fucking atrocious. I went to Loyola U for undergrad, and, although that was 15 years ago, the Reader was a free hippie rag that earned most of its dollars from hooker (I’m sorry, _escort_ and _massage_) ads. How many people here even gone to their website–even once? Here is their link: > **[Chicago Reader](https://chicagoreader.com/)** > > Chicago's alternative nonprofit newsroom. City Life, News & Investigations, Columns & Opinion, Music, Arts & Culture, Film, Food & Drink. Things to do. Nonprofit Guide. Online and print advertising opportunities. You can see a link to our beloved Straight Dope right there on the left nav. It warms your heart. OK, it’s easy to be a smartass. The Reader site looks OK and caters to a fairly intelligent demo. But so do college radio stations and newspapers, and they make dick for money. If this board and its clientele is really worth something, then someone should be willing to buy it from the Reader. Let’s go with the $60k income stream. Let’s say the net income of this board is $30k (my guess is it’s more, but let’s be conservative). At an again conservative risk-adjusted discount rate of 10%, the NPV of this board is $300k (level perpetuity model). The fly in the ointment is the connection with the Straight Dope brand, so the Reader probably isn’t willing to sell the board off without selling that off too (though I bet they overvalue that as well). If the Reader were smart, they would sell it all off to someone genuinely interested in doing something with it. If the members of this board were better organized, they would cut the ties with the whole “Cecil” thing (pretty lame in my book to begin with), and reconstruct the board elsewhere, as someone else previously suggested. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/369 "2007-11-13T02:54:03Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] \If this board and its clientele is really worth something, then someone should be willing to buy it from the Reader. \ [/QUOTE] Wasn’t The Reader just sold to Creative Loafing? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/370 "2007-11-13T02:56:05Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] Wasn’t The Reader just sold to Creative Loafing? [/QUOTE] Yes ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/371 "2007-11-13T03:04:10Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] Let’s not hang too much on “flee in terror”. That was quite obviously hyperbole. By now, I am sure you know I am not the fleeing type. [/quote] Of course I know you weren’t about to flee. But your remark was obviously meant to imply that **samclem** had been extremely rude to you, when in fact he was not. You were the one who began the snark in that thread. **Sam** was just responding to you in kind, and his remark wasn’t that severe. You deliberately made it out to be worse than it was. > [@](#): > > That said, I think you are fair enough in what you say. Because I still identify with you somewhat, I will keep your point in mind. I will try to remain on my best behaviour from now on. I will not bore you with my personal life, but I am finding myself in a more restrictive space and with more down time that I am used to and that makes me pointier. That’s good to hear. Whatever your personal problems, you shouldn’t be taking your frustrations out on people here. > [@](#): > > What has in fact changed, is my perception of how this place is being run. It ticks me because I do like it here, and I think TPTB are being destructive of this place. Because of that, I am not pulling any punches when it comes to matters such as that ATMB thread. I know nobody likes to hear a noob tell them how to do their job. That will not stop me from trying to get my message across. If some find it obnoxious, that’s fine. If they find it bannably so, then pity. If you don’t like some things about the board, fair enough, it’s your opinion. The problem is in large part in how you express it. You should understand that your message is less likely to be gotten across if you are persistently an asshole in the way you communicate it. You do have a habit of putting the worse possible spin on anything that goes on. Let’s look at what you posted above about me: [QUOTE=Sapo] In only a few months you have become a real prick all cavalier about insulting the people you are supposed to serve. [/QUOTE] Now as far as I know, the only time I have insulted you is when I told you you were being stupid by trolling. (Perhaps I have some other time but I don’t recall it.) Now since you were in fact acting stupidly at that time, and even apologized for some of your behavior, this was more in the nature of an observation than an insult. Calling me a prick because I told you you were acting stupid when in fact you were acting stupid is rather an overreaction. With regard to “the people I am supposed to serve,” what you overlook is that I am not here to serve you as an individual, I am here to try to serve the best interests of the board. If I act against you, it’s not with the intent to hassle you, it’s to prevent you from being a hassle to others. I certainly don’t make a practice of insulting those who made an inadvertent error. But I’m not going to pull punches in dealing with people who are slow to learn. > [@](#): > > And trying to take this back to the OP, I think my short history here is somewhat reflective of the wider decline of the board that some people perceive. > > As we run out of things to talk about, we start talking more about ourselves and we start finding our rougher edges. For some people this is a good thing. A more clubby atmosphere where everybody knows everybody else. A pub to hang out with the regulars. Since you have a relatively short history on the board, you don’t realize that this sort of thing has been going on since shortly after it started. The constellation of “regulars” has changed continuously throughout the history of the board. > [@](#): > > Others like more the carnival atmosphere with a constant influx of new things, no matter if they are good or bad as long as they are new. Those are the ones here complaining about the decay of the board. There’s plenty of other places to find that on the internet. I can’t imagine that we can ever compete with them, so why should we aim for that? > [@](#): > > What TPTB need to figure, is what group is a better market and cater to them. Trying to be all things to all people normally fails. Well, of course we aren’t trying to be all things to all people. While a “carnival atmosphere” might have a bigger market, it’s not the core of what this site is about. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/372 "2007-11-13T03:25:06Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] Since you have a relatively short history on the board, you don’t realize that this sort of thing has been going on since shortly after it started. The constellation of “regulars” has changed continuously throughout the history of the board. [/quote] Yes… he forgets, you’re a young poster and your patience is limited. Now why don’t you pass the time by playing a little minesweeper? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/373 "2007-11-13T03:54:11Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Yes… he forgets, you’re a young poster and your patience is limited. Now why don’t you pass the time by playing a little minesweeper? [/QUOTE] I’m afraid that’s a bit too cryptic for me. What do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/374 "2007-11-13T04:02:59Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] I’m afraid that’s a bit too cryptic for me. What do you mean? [/QUOTE] _Manchurian Candidate_ reference. Not important. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/375 "2007-11-13T04:44:57Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] …If the members of this board were better organized, they would cut the ties with the whole “Cecil” thing (pretty lame in my book to begin with)… [/QUOTE] ::shakes head:: You had me right up until this passage. For which you must, of course, be immediately stoned to death as a heretic, burned at the stake, and then drawn and quartered. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/376 "2007-11-13T06:19:56Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Yes [/QUOTE] Right, OK, someone should want to split off that asset, no matter who owns the Reader. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/377 "2007-11-13T13:51:04Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] Right, OK, someone should want to split off that asset, no matter who owns the Reader. [/QUOTE] Give it a few more months to shake out. They might want to see what they can do to make the SDMB more of a money maker, leave it alone or cut it loose. Someone has posted recently that **Creative Loafing** appears to have a better handle on the Internet and Internet marketing than the reader did. Large changes could be in process. No idea if they will be for the better or for the worse. It is even possible your prior prediction that has already passed might come true after all. Just for a different reason and a year late. 😉 Jim ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/378 "2007-11-13T14:43:09Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] If the members of this board were better organized, they would cut the ties with the whole “Cecil” thing (pretty lame in my book to begin with), and reconstruct the board elsewhere, as someone else previously suggested. [/QUOTE] I was that ‘someone,’ and at least for me, part of a successful reconstruction of the board elsewhere would be the inclusion of the board’s 8+ years of past threads, or at least whatever of that is still on the Chicago Reader’s servers, disks, etc. This would obviously require their consent. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/379 "2007-11-13T17:08:18Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] Of course I know you weren’t about to flee. But your remark was obviously meant to imply that **samclem** had been extremely rude to you, when in fact he was not. You were the one who began the snark in that thread. **Sam** was just responding to you in kind, and his remark wasn’t that severe. You deliberately made it out to be worse than it was. [/QUOTE] I don’t think samclen was being rude to me, not personally, at least. I thought that that comment would have been extremely rude to the administration if it had been made from someone other than a moderator or administrator. ETA: To put it in perspective, it is the kind of snarky comment I would have thought of making but even I wouldn’t have dared to post. And it really disappointed me (although it ceratinly did not surprise me) that such a comment would be let out without someone from the administration stepping out to tone it down or spiin it a bit more positively. To me it sounded like “I am sorry if we ever gave you the wrong impression but we have never given a fuck, really”. That is why I was left open mouthed and with zero desire to continue in that topic. You cannot argue with someone who openly admits to not caring. As things stood, we had a former member showing some interest on the board and he was kicked out like a lousy dog. A terrible way to run a business. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502/380 "2007-11-14T00:28:21Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] And it really disappointed me (although it ceratinly did not surprise me) that such a comment would be let out without someone from the administration stepping out to tone it down or spiin it a bit more positively. To me it sounded like “I am sorry if we ever gave you the wrong impression but we have never given a fuck, really”. That is why I was left open mouthed and with zero desire to continue in that topic. You cannot argue with someone who openly admits to not caring. As things stood, we had a former member showing some interest on the board and he was kicked out like a lousy dog. A terrible way to run a business. [/QUOTE] This was my concern as well. Had the comment been made by a Random Member, I would that thought of it as a sarcastic attempt at humour or a somewhat pointed way of making a point. Coming unchallenged from a Mod, however- well, it certainly changed the tone of the thread to something a lot darker. It’s still very a very unsettling development, IMHO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-sdmb-lost-critical-mass/425502.md?page=20)