# Has the term 'Karen' become racist and sexist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253 "2020-02-20T19:38:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pakputeh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c67d28/32.png) [@pakputeh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pakputeh)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/1 "2020-02-20T19:38:19Z")
Originally, the appellation ‘Karen’ meant “demanding older White woman” in the context of customer service. After seeing the term used to describe certain older White female politicians, I started thinking that much of the time, ‘Karen’ has evolved to mean “White bitch” generally. I think that using a derogatory term which specifically calls out race and gender is not OK. But it seems the consensus is that White people are fair game for jokey name-calling, and that most women who are called ‘Karens’ are bitchy anyway, so they deserve it. Am I just being oversensitive? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/2 "2020-02-20T19:45:24Z")
What the fuck are you talking about? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/3 "2020-02-20T19:52:19Z")
> [@pakputeh](#): > > Am I just being oversensitive? Yes ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/4 "2020-02-20T19:56:43Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > What the fuck are you talking about? 😕 The Karen stereotype denotes an old white mom, usually in 40-50s, with multiple kids, domineering soccer mom, henpecking wife, “I WANT TO SPEAK TO YOUR MANAGER” because she can’t get her coupon honored at a store, etc. The OP is asking if this is racist and sexist because it specifically targets a subset of white women. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/5 "2020-02-20T19:57:29Z")
Never heard the name used this way; gotta cite? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/6 "2020-02-20T20:00:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Never heard the name used this way; gotta cite? > **[Urban Dictionary: Karen](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Karen)** > > 1. An attractive, kind, intelligent woman. The Danish meaning of Karen is "pure" and the Hebrew meaning is "ray of light." 2. Some people who are envious of Karen have used this name as a source of ridicule in an attempt to turn her into something... ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/7 "2020-02-20T20:04:41Z")
Couldn’t this argument be used to show that every single meme ever created is racist/sexist because the original picture is of a person with a race and gender? Bad news Brian? Overly obsessed girlfriend? Success kid? Ermahgerd? Good guy Greg? Willie Wonka? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/8 "2020-02-20T20:05:20Z")
I do think it’s demeaning to people with that name. Which isn’t to say one can never propagate things that single out people’s names for their humor but I think this thing’s had its 15 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/9 "2020-02-20T20:07:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > [Urban Dictionary: Karen](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Karen) Thanks. > [@pakputeh](#): > > Am I just being oversensitive? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/10 "2020-02-20T20:08:26Z")
[Karen: The anti-vaxxer soccer mom with speak-to-the-manager hair, explained](https://www.vox.com/2020/2/5/21079162/karen-name-insult-meme-manager) Includes some reasonable discussion of the charge that the meme is sexist. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/11 "2020-02-20T20:21:26Z")
Racist? I’ve never heard the Karen meme being used to indicate that white people are inferior or some other race is superior. Now sexist, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/12 "2020-02-20T20:24:54Z")
Yes, you’re being oversensitive. “Karen” is just a nickname for the concept. And it’s not just “white bitch” but “_entitled_ white bitch.” ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/13 "2020-02-20T20:31:08Z")
Been alive a long time and never heard of this. East Coast thing? Or something the kids are doing nowadays? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/14 "2020-02-20T20:34:27Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Racist? I’ve never heard the Karen meme being used to indicate that white people are inferior or some other race is superior. I’ve never seen it used to demean someone explicitly _for_ their race, only for their privileged and entitled attitude. But it’s a demeaning epithet, and it’s only ever applied to white women, I guess that’s the argument. A similar kind of epithet used against a minority racial group would not be acceptable, but I think this is a case where it’s not symmetrical, and where the [prejudice+power] view of racism is applicable. To at least some extent, the stereotyped entitled attitude reflects the privileged position and attitude of white people. It makes little sense to say that you can’t call out white privilege because that’s racist against white people. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/15 "2020-02-20T20:40:13Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Been alive a long time and never heard of this. East Coast thing? Or something the kids are doing nowadays? Internet meme ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/16 "2020-02-20T20:41:40Z")
No, I don’t think it has. But I must say I find it very odd lately, this trend of having stereotypes of people personified with names. Karen, Chad, Stacy, and Becky are four that seem to have emerged just over the past few years. I can’t really think of any precedent for it (in American culture) other than maybe the name “Bubba” for a generic “hillbilly.” I find this name-character-stereotype thing rather annoying, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/17 "2020-02-20T20:44:21Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Been alive a long time and never heard of this. East Coast thing? Or something the kids are doing nowadays? It’s not a regional thing, it’s an internet meme thing. Something you’d encounter on social media or reddit. Originally it would typically when somebody films an entitled middle-aged white woman abusing retail staff, but I’d say the usage has widened to nasty entitled white women having public meltdowns for other reasons - ranting at cops when they have been pulled over, for example; perhaps even situations where it’s a white woman saying nasty racist things. But certainly always white women. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/18 "2020-02-20T20:45:39Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I’ve never seen it used to demean someone explicitly _for_ their race, only for their privileged and entitled attitude. But it’s a demeaning epithet, and it’s only ever applied to white women, I guess that’s the argument. > > A similar kind of epithet used against a minority racial group would not be acceptable, but I think this is a case where it’s not symmetrical, and where the [prejudice+power] view of racism is applicable. To at least some extent, the stereotyped entitled attitude reflects the privileged position and attitude of white people. It makes little sense to say that you can’t call out white privilege because that’s racist against white people. Right. And I would say that 90% of the time (if not more) I see white people using the “Karen” meme. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/19 "2020-02-20T20:46:19Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > No, I don’t think it has. But I must say I find it very odd lately, this trend of having stereotypes of people personified with names. Karen, Chad, Stacy, and Becky are four that seem to have emerged just over the past few years. I can’t really think of any precedent for it (in American culture) other than maybe the name “Bubba” for a generic “hillbilly.” I find this name-character-stereotype thing rather annoying, to be honest. The name “Leroy” has certain connotations for a different group. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/20 "2020-02-20T20:47:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > What the fuck are you talking about? 😕 LOL! I must concur, if that’s possible. My FB friend are always posting Karen memes, and I asked where that came from and they had no idea. My wife’s name is Karen. She wasn’t familiar with that idea either. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253.md?page=2)