# Has the term 'Karen' become racist and sexist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253 "2020-02-20T19:38:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/41 "2020-02-21T01:01:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > “Dolores!” Obligatory Simpsons video: ...Bart, Cart, Dart, Eeart...Can't see anything wrong with Bart! ---
**Author:** ![pirviii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pirviii/32/3233_2.png) [@pirviii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pirviii)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/42 "2020-02-21T02:46:31Z")
My first wife is named Karen, and if you looked up Karen in the dictionary, for this definition, her picture would be there. She is the most Karen that ever Karened and one of the many reasons she is an ex. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/43 "2020-02-21T03:08:18Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I’ve never seen it used to demean someone explicitly _for_ their race, only for their privileged and entitled attitude. Those on the sexism side argue that it’s increasingly used to belittle and dismiss any kind of woman with any kind of attitude that speaks up for any reason, thus discouraging women from “making a fuss” for fear of being branded a Karen. A little like what happened with “social justice warrior” and “intel.” ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/44 "2020-02-21T03:09:02Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I’m with them. Never heard of it. To me, “Karen” is a common girls’ name. Or was a common a girls’ name–like Mary, Kathy, Donna, Susan. Nowadays the popularity of many of the common girls’ names has declined substantially [and similarly for common boys’ names]. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/45 "2020-02-21T03:12:15Z")
> [@pakputeh](#): > > Thank you, I really appreciate your extensive contribution to the discussion. Bless your heart; you’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/46 "2020-02-21T03:47:41Z")
I had never heard of Karen being used in a derogatory context either. I can’t think of a single well-known antivaxer named Karen. Jenny, Barbara, Louise and Suzanne, O.K., but not Karen. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/47 "2020-02-21T03:55:21Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I’ve never seen it used to demean someone explicitly _for_ their race, Millions of Burmese have… ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/48 "2020-02-21T07:55:04Z")
Hmm… _pak puteh_ means ‘white daddy’ in Malay. _Mengapa anda memilih nama itu?_ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/49 "2020-02-21T08:10:15Z")
> [@pakputeh](#): > > Thank you, I really appreciate your extensive contribution to the discussion. Way to Britta the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/50 "2020-02-21T15:01:25Z")
I don’t think it’s necessarily racist or sexist. Just rude. Like “OK boomer”. I’m sure there are plenty of perfectly nice Karens that are the butt of jokes, and I don’t think that’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/51 "2020-02-21T15:04:37Z")
I genuinely thought you were talking about the Karen peoples of Myanmar [Karen people - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_people) ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/52 "2020-02-21T15:47:49Z")
Are these name associations a new thing? I don’t recall any from my sojourns in North America during the 20th century. (‘Chad’ is the one that might come to mind, but I first heard of it a few years ago, probably right here at SDMB.) > [@casdave](#): > > I genuinely thought you were talking about the Karen peoples of Myanmar [Karen people - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_people) That’s what first popped into my mind, though I quickly guessed that it was a name-association like ‘Chad.’ There are Karen people not too far from me in Thailand, BTW. (Once when smokables were hard to find here, I instigated a mission to the hills for a Karen supply. That had a humorous end-result I’ve related elsewhere.) ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/53 "2020-02-21T15:55:38Z")
I get it. The Karen’s of the world (and white people in general) are not used to being judged and criticized by a bunch of randos while they go about their daily lives. As a result of being treated with kid gloves their entire lives they seem to believe that their behavior and culture are beyond reproach and therefore cannot be criticized. The rest of us have been dealing with rando criticism off and on for as far back as we can remember. So whenever I read an OP like this I can’t help but wonder how the they would feel if they were black, latino or asian and had to face _real_ racism and not this made up bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/54 "2020-02-21T15:57:17Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I’m sure there are plenty of perfectly nice Karens that are the butt of jokes, and I don’t think that’s a good thing. I don’t think you get it. Calling someone a Karen has nothing to do with that person’s name. A Julie or a Linda can be “a Karen”, likewise a Karen isn’t necessarily “a Karen”. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/55 "2020-02-21T16:02:24Z")
The subreddit [entitledparents](https://www.reddit.com/r/entitledparents/) uses Karen as the genetic for the entitled mother. (Strangely, there’s no name for entitled fathers.) It has 1 million subscribers and has been around for five years. I think this is pretty good evidence that the term is firmly embedded, at least in younger demographics. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/56 "2020-02-21T16:19:40Z")
I don’t like the “Karen” thing. It seems like a easy way to reduce middle age white women to a stereotype (“uggh, she’s such a ‘Karen’”) and then treat them as punching bags (“Shut up, Karen!”). I don’t see a equivalent term on the male side, and I don’t see non-white women referred to as “Karens”. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/57 "2020-02-21T16:20:06Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I’ve never heard “Karen” used to refer to anything/body other than somebody actually named Karen. > [@casdave](#): > > I genuinely thought you were talking about the Karen peoples of Myanmar [Karen people - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_people) I partially take back my earlier comment. I have heard of the Karen peoples; but wasn’t thinking of them in this context. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/58 "2020-02-21T16:38:33Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Satchmo? Other than Louis Armstrong, I’ve never, ever heard this term used to describe a single soul. > [@OldGuy](#): > > I’ve heard a few more, but it certainly was Louis Armstrong’s nickname. I suspect he meant to say Sambo. Which acquired very strong racial overtones. But I read _Little Black Sambo_ as a child, and that child was quite clever. I’m not sure how it became a derogatory name. Right… Sambo, not Satchmo, my error! ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/59 "2020-02-21T16:41:35Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I don’t like the “Karen” thing. It seems like a easy way to reduce middle age white women to a stereotype (“uggh, she’s such a ‘Karen’”) and then treat them as punching bags (“Shut up, Karen!”). > > I don’t see a equivalent term on the male side, and I don’t see non-white women referred to as “Karens”. It’s not about middle aged white women. It’s about a specific behavior. Demanding to talk to the manager. Calling the police on someone just living their life and not harming anybody. Sticking ones nose where it doesn’t belong especially with an entitled attitude. This behavior is not specific to middle aged white women. It is also behavior that should be ridiculed. Also, we are talking about internet memes and internet culture. There is no way to control this stuff, so I’m not sure what the debate is here. It is what it is, and nobody has any control over the internet and how people behave on it. How does anyone see this being resolved or corrected if you are opposed to this usage of the “Karen” meme? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/60 "2020-02-21T16:41:46Z")
Since virtually no one has ever heard of this, I seriously doubt that this can be a valid concern. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253.md?page=4)