# Has the term 'Karen' become racist and sexist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253 "2020-02-20T19:38:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/101 "2020-02-21T22:04:19Z")
when I first saw this a year or so ago it was a response to something and it was a picture of the character Karen on will and grace with a snarky response on top and “ok Karen” on the bottom so i thought it was like the “bye felicia” thing … ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/102 "2020-02-21T22:20:08Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Louis Armstrong’s nickname was derived from “satchelmouth,” a name he was called as a kid. If anyone else has been called that, it was in reference to Armstrong. The other famous “satchel-mouth” is Margarete von Tirol (14th century). They were not speaking English, naturally. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/103 "2020-02-21T22:26:31Z")
You haven’t led a full life until you have married a Karen or two. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/104 "2020-02-21T22:39:30Z")
The lil’wrekker who’s on social.media nearly constantly (21yo) says a Karen is: “Every girl who was mean to you in highschool, and is now a middle aged white woman who is mad at the world and doesn’t vaccinate her kids.” Exact quote. Now, I’m not arguing that she knows all but, she is well versed on the internet culture of her generation. So there’s a young persons opinion. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/105 "2020-02-21T22:57:53Z")
I’ve been hearing this reference (as well as “Becky”) re: demanding white women since 2017. Where have y’all been? 😉 Here’s an example: [https://twitter.com/Freeyourmindkid/status/849983898717126662?s=20](https://twitter.com/Freeyourmindkid/status/849983898717126662?s=20) “You literally came into my mentions and have been trying to change the topic since last night, this is peak Caucasity, Becky.” [https://twitter.com/search?q=%40Freeyourmindkid%20becky&src=typed\_query](https://twitter.com/search?q=%40Freeyourmindkid%20becky&src=typed_query) This is just one popular Black Twitter account, I can find others. Here’s Propane Jane using the term constantly: [https://twitter.com/search?q=%40docrocktex26%20becky&src=typed\_query](https://twitter.com/search?q=%40docrocktex26%20becky&src=typed_query) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/106 "2020-02-21T23:08:55Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > It’s not racist or whatever-ist, it’s a descriptive label EARNED by the target. Generic white mom walking down the street? Nobody in their right mind would think, “Ah! A Karen!” because she has not yet started Karening (For those who are unfamiliar with Karen & Becky, it might interest you to know that The Kids are doing grammatically unholy things to nouns & verbs). Or, to put it another way, they are doing completely appropriate things that have been absolutely normal in English for hundreds of years. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/107 "2020-02-21T23:20:34Z")
Dang, I’m glad my real name isn’t Karen. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/108 "2020-02-21T23:45:41Z")
Post 105, _Beck_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/109 "2020-02-22T00:56:58Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > You haven’t led a full life until you have married a Karen or two. I had a Karen-named girlfriend in college for nearly three years. She’s an African-American lady, and no doubt horrified by this turn of events. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/110 "2020-02-22T02:23:22Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Post 105, _Beck_. 😉 I saw that. That what I was responding to, albeit facetiously. (:)) ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/111 "2020-02-22T03:22:47Z")
Karen gets shit done by being overbearing and domineering. Calling a politician that seems…like a compliment. And let’s be honest, Elizabeth Warren seems like a Karen. Now, being called Felicia…that’s not a good place. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/112 "2020-02-22T03:31:33Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > I had a Karen-named girlfriend in college for nearly three years. She’s an African-American lady, and no doubt horrified by this turn of events. That all sounds super crazy. Well, here’s a question: we all know how Adolf Dassler suddenly became Adi. Is there any evidence of Karen turning into Karenina, Kathy, Kitty, Katya, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/113 "2020-02-22T07:26:55Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/114 "2020-02-22T14:28:36Z")
I think the “Karen” meme was funny when it first emerged, but now people are using it to describe any and every case of a white woman (not necessarily middle-aged) being “bad”. [“Karen”](https://www.reddit.com/r/FuckYouKaren/) is accused of not just being rude to restaurant waitstaff, but also pushing MLMs, being anti-vax, cheating on her husband, and being a basic bitch who puts raisins in potato salad. It’s a catch-all for “stupid woman who gets on your nerves”. Middle-age and haircut are optional. The other day, I overheard a coworker say, “I’m not trying to be a Karen, but I don’t like this.” Of course people giggled in response. But I think it’s kind of messed-up that she felt the need to throw in that qualifier. It would be like a black guy saying, “Not to be Angry Black Guy, but I don’t like this.” Just because it’s kinda funny doesn’t make it also kinda sad. And it does strike me as unfair that there isn’t a named meme for bad-behaving men with the same kind of traction. So I can see why someone why think “Karen” is sexist and racist. But I think the most apt descriptor for it is “shit that’s been done to death”. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/115 "2020-02-22T15:36:59Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > And it does strike me as unfair that there isn’t a named meme for bad-behaving men with the same kind of traction. What is stopping you from creating and promoting that meme? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/116 "2020-02-22T16:03:35Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > What is stopping you from creating and promoting that meme? You know, you’ve always struck me a decent guy. But this is a stupid trollish question. Nothing I posted should give you the impression that I’m a fan of memes and that I want to waste time creating/promoting any. So come the fuck on. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/117 "2020-02-22T16:06:59Z")
Monstro, you may have forgotten what forum you’re in, but fwiw it’s worth I thought your analysis was spot-on and perceptive, and I agree that it didn’t deserve that pointless response. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/118 "2020-02-22T16:25:58Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > You know, you’ve always struck me a decent guy. But this is a stupid trollish question. Nothing I posted should give you the impression that I’m a fan of memes and that I want to waste time creating/promoting any. So come the fuck on. Sorry if I came off as trollish, I honestly thought it was an appropriate suggestion to your statement I was responding to. I won’t try to explain my thinking, rather I’ll just withdraw my suggestion and apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/119 "2020-02-22T16:33:53Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > That all sounds super crazy. Well, here’s a question: we all know how Adolf Dassler suddenly became Adi. Is there any evidence of Karen turning into Karenina, Kathy, Kitty, Katya, etc.? And then there was Adolph “Harpo” Marx, who mysteriously turned into an Arthur somewhere around 1933. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253/120 "2020-02-22T16:38:07Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I don’t think you get it. Calling someone a Karen has nothing to do with that person’s name. A Julie or a Linda can be “a Karen”, likewise a Karen isn’t necessarily “a Karen”. I get it, I just don’t think it’s cool to pick a supposedly random name and giving it a negative connotation. I wouldn’t want to be an Isis right now either (which is a mercifully less common name). I don’t think a lot of people would like to wake up and find out that their name became synonymous with “douchebag” overnight, especially since there is no real source unlike say, Adolf. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-term-karen-become-racist-and-sexist/848253.md?page=7)