# Has the world actually been cooling since 2002? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728 "2014-02-19T19:32:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/461 "2014-03-04T17:57:22Z")
And you are still following the wrong “luminaries”, they are funded or work for denier sources. Regarding Dr. Nir Shaviv: > **[Nir Shaviv](https://www.desmog.com/nir-shaviv/)** > > Nir J. Shaviv Credentials Background Nir J. Shaviv is an associate professor of Physics at the Racah Institute at the The Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He contends that the sun’s rays are the primary driver of climate change. \[…\] > [@](#): > > January 27, 2012 > > Shaviv signed a Wall Street Journal Op-Ed titled “No Need to Panic About Global Warming.” > > … > > Media transparency found that the article had misrepresented the position of Yale economist William Nordhaus. > **[RealClimate: Peer Review: A Necessary But Not Sufficient Condition](https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2005/01/peer-review-a-necessary-but-not-sufficient-condition/)** > > RealClimate: by Michael Mann and Gavin Schmidt On this site we emphasize conclusions that are supported by "peer-reviewed" climate research. That is, research that has been published by one or more scientists in a scholarly scientific journal after... > [@](#): > > Shaviv and Veizer (2003) published a paper in the journal GSA Today, where the authors claimed to establish a correlation between cosmic ray flux (CRF) and temperature evolution over hundreds of millions of years, concluding that climate sensitivity to carbon dioxide was much smaller than currently accepted. > > The paper was accompanied by a press release entitled “Global Warming not a Man-made Phenomenon”, in which Shaviv was quoted as stating,“The operative significance of our research is that a significant reduction of the release of greenhouse gases will not significantly lower the global temperature, since only about a third of the warming over the past century should be attributed to man”. > > However, in the paper the authors actually stated that “our conclusion about the dominance of the CRF over climate variability is valid only on multimillion-year time scales”. Unsurprisingly, there was a public relations offensive using the seriously flawed conclusions expressed in the press release to once again try to cast doubt on the scientific consensus that humans are influencing climate. > > These claims were subsequently disputed in an article in Eos (Rahmstorf et al, 2004) by an international team of scientists and geologists (including some of us here at RealClimate), who suggested that Shaviv and Veizer’s analyses were based on unreliable and poorly replicated estimates, selective adjustments of the data (shifting the data, in one case by 40 million years) and drew untenable conclusions, particularly with regard to the influence of anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations on recent warming. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/462 "2014-03-04T18:05:43Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > No. That isn’t correct. What’s not correct? ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/463 "2014-03-04T18:09:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And you are still following the wrong “luminaries”, they are funded or work for denier sources. And we see again the strange twisted world of the climate screwballs, who actually use an app to spit out an answer for anything that might possibly challenge their pre-conceived view of reality. Seriously, he just types a name in, and if it’s on a list, there is a canned response he cuts and pastes, rather than contribute anything from his own mind, experience or even based on what he is responding to. It’s this constant cut and paste, rather than discussion, that actually seems like spam, not a forum discussion at all. Because it’a actually not a discussion, it’s an app he copies from. In this strange Universe of the climate kooks, (the nutjobs who actually created an app just for forum discussions),in that strange little world, an Award-winning Israeli Astrophysicist, who actually knows more than all of them together ever will, is to be ignored, slandered and instead of talking about anything, they spread fear, uncertainty and doubt, with out really any effort. It’s like a bot is watching the topic, and instantly post huge copy and paste. It’s why I use ideas and sources that don’t show up in the app. It really messes with the people who don’t actually know anything about the subject. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/464 "2014-03-04T18:12:14Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > What’s not correct? Earth looking satellites do not have some huge view like you are describing. Sideways or super wide angle looking cameras are very rare, and for a good reason. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/465 "2014-03-04T18:15:12Z")
Here’s the app > **[Skeptical Science iPhone app](https://skepticalscience.com/iphone.shtml)** > > Examines the science and arguments of global warming skepticism. Common objections like 'global warming is caused by the sun', 'temperature has changed naturally in the past' or 'other planets are warming too' are examined to see what the science... It’s why it seems like he isn’t having a conversation. Because he isn’t. And he doesn’t actually understand some of the links and data he constantly copies. It gives an illusion that he knows a lot, when in fact he doesn’t even understand what he copies into the post box at times. Like the slander he just did on an actual astrophysicist. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/466 "2014-03-04T19:08:46Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > And we see again the strange twisted world of the climate screwballs, who actually use an app to spit out an answer for anything that might possibly challenge their pre-conceived view of reality. Seriously, he just types a name in, and if it’s on a list, there is a canned response he cuts and pastes, rather than contribute anything from his own mind, experience or even based on what he is responding to. Nah, it is only your plain ignorance that is telling you that it is impossible for the people that look into pseudoscience to catalog and categorize what was encountered in the past, it is also a denial of history as well of the march of time and science. If you do not want to get burned by very bad pickings you need to be aware of the debunkings they already had. What it is very clear is that you only show to others how incapable you are on identifying who is really doing the FUD. As I pointed before, that astrophysicist is an skeptic, but he has been found to be wrong. That he is being promoted and invited to testify even after other researchers have pointed many times how he is wrong is only evidence of how inept the Republican party is nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/467 "2014-03-04T19:13:11Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Here’s the app > [Skeptical Science iPhone app](https://www.skepticalscience.com/iphone.shtml) > > It’s why it seems like he isn’t having a conversation. Because he isn’t. And he doesn’t actually understand some of the links and data he constantly copies. > > It gives an illusion that he knows a lot, when in fact he doesn’t even understand what he copies into the post box at times. > > Like the slander he just did on an actual astrophysicist. This is friggin’ hilarious. And explains a lot. Like why so often his posts don’t seem to directly follow from the one he’s resounding to. Does the app have an “All signs point to YES”? HA! ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/468 "2014-03-04T19:18:51Z")
There isn’t a single “response” from the app that allows for any uncertainty, much less concedes a single point. Ever. It’s the ultimate troll app. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/469 "2014-03-04T19:18:58Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This is friggin’ hilarious. And explains a lot. Like why so often his posts don’t seem to directly follow from the one he’s resounding to. > > Does the app have an “All signs point to YES”? HA! Of course, if you want to follow what FX is claiming (that it is impossible for people to catalog already debunked pap and to check the past history of dubious research) it is not me the one that is getting it wrong, as usual the effort here is to only kill the messenger, that app does link to the science, FX still can not accept that it is a resource that even conservative scientists have recommended. Incidentally the failed accusation (insulting too BTW) that FX is making was not done here, the debunking of the astrophysicist came from RealClimate and Desmogblog, so hilarious really as in misguided and clueless accusation. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/470 "2014-03-04T19:42:12Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Here’s the app > [Skeptical Science iPhone app](https://www.skepticalscience.com/iphone.shtml) > > It’s why it seems like he isn’t having a conversation. Because he isn’t. And he doesn’t actually understand some of the links and data he constantly copies. > > It gives an illusion that he knows a lot, when in fact he doesn’t even understand what he copies into the post box at times. > > Like the slander he just did on an actual astrophysicist. Whoa … is that even allowed here? The app I mean, not calling Astrophysicists a bunch of slanders, I’ve heard them called a lot worst (for good reason too). What does that say about all the posters here who defend his knowledge-base [giggle]? ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/471 "2014-03-04T19:44:53Z")
Hey … **Gigo** … Methane doesn’t carry an asymmetric distribution of electric charge, it’s not a greenhouse gas. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/472 "2014-03-04T19:47:23Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Whoa … is that even allowed here? The app I mean, not calling Astrophysicists a bunch of slanders, I’ve heard them called a lot worst (for good reason too). Yes it is allowed, what I see here is just an attempt at killing the messenger. And no, the slander he gets is only for his research not being accepted by many others. And with very good reasons. > [@watchwolf49](#): > > What does that say about all the posters here who defend his knowledge-base [giggle]? It says that I’m fine, as scientists like Barry Bickmore, Richard Alley, Kerry Emmanuel and other like even Scientific American recommend the use of Skeptical Science; that, once again, it was not used to debunk the astrophysicist, \*\*you are once again just following the lead of people that are not paying attention. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/473 "2014-03-04T20:12:05Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Of course, if you want to follow what FX is claiming (that it is impossible for people to catalog already debunked pap and to check the past history of dubious research) it is not me the one that is getting it wrong, as usual the effort here is to only kill the messenger, that app does link to the science, FX still can not accept that it is a resource that even conservative scientists have recommended. I stand by my comment. I’m not even opining on the correctness—or not—of your position. I so often find reading your responses just plain annoying because they don’t seem to flow from the comment you’re responding to. Someone will make a comment and/or ask you a question and PRESTO—cites, cites and more cites! Oh Boy! That’s why I was very careful before when asking your position. And SO thankful when you actually answered my question directly. I think you, and everyone, would benefit from paying more attention to that. Because not doing so does make you appear more bot-like. A I would say that you’ve become overly dependent on the tools you use. I get the sense that you respond to every dissenting comment with the attitude of, “Oh yeah, we’ll let me show you a mountain of information that will show you are wrong, you Idiot Denier, you!” Much better, for this reader anyway, would be responses that start more from an attitude of “I see what you’re getting at, but…” or “I’m not sure I understand you’re point, do you mean A… or B?” Come to think of it, I don’t recall you ever asking someone for clarification in these discussions. I think it’s because you don’t really care what their position is, just that it differs from yours. And if it does, the poster is just a stupid, an evil denier, someone who can’t read for comprehension, someone who doesn’t know how to read cites, someone who just wants to kill the messenger, someone who is not paying attention, etc. It’ is really annoying. So many times I think I’ll follow these discussions and then I’ll run into the sort of stuff I just mentioned and just roll my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/474 "2014-03-04T20:19:10Z")
> [@FXMastermind](#): > > Here’s the app > [Skeptical Science iPhone app](https://www.skepticalscience.com/iphone.shtml) > > It’s why it seems like he isn’t having a conversation. Because he isn’t. And he doesn’t actually understand some of the links and data he constantly copies. > > It gives an illusion that he knows a lot, when in fact he doesn’t even understand what he copies into the post box at times. > > Like the slander he just did on an actual astrophysicist. Holy fuck!@$#@! I’ve joked about that and it seemed like **GIGO** was a human version of that, but I had no idea it existed and he was actually using it (which he appears to have just admitted in a previous post). That explains why he never seemed to understand anything. Mods: In my humble opinion, this is a serious detriment to an actual debate. It should be grounds for, at minimum, allowing us to set aside 1 climate thread in GD that **GIGO** is not allowed to be part of so we can have a good discussion. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/475 "2014-03-04T20:20:05Z")
Just one more note here, besides not being right about the sources I used to show how wrong that scientist is, I have mentioned many times that I do not know everything and the ones accusing me of using a “troll tool” already know from way past encounters that I use recommended sources like Skeptical Science, their “surprise” here looks really just like gross forgetfulness, (another reason why one should rely on their say so’s) The effort here is just another excuse to not deal with the research from the scientists that found flaws on what Nir Shaviv did. It is easier to just attack the poster. > **[BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | 'No cosmic ray climate effects'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3419975.stm)** > > Human activities rather than cosmic rays are the main cause of global warming, scientists say. > [@](#): > > The Eos authors, led by Stefan Rahmstorf from the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, Germany, say the paper by Shaviv and Veizer was “incorrect and based on questionable methodology”. > > They say the data on cosmic rays and temperature so far in the past are extremely uncertain. > > They argue that the authors’ reconstruction of ancient cosmic rays is based on only 50 meteorites, and say most other experts interpret their significance in a very different way. > > Arguing that Shaviv and Veizer had in places adjusted the data, “in one case by 40 million years”, the Eos team says they did not show any correlation between cosmic rays and climate. > > And even if their analysis had been methodologically correct, it says, their work applied to time scales of several million years, while the current climate warming has occurred during just a hundred years, for which completely different mechanisms are relevant. > > Dr Shaviv told BBC News Online: “The article in Eos raises general claims without substantiating them with any actual evidence. The few more specific arguments that they bring are simply flawed and easily refuted.” > **[Cosmic Rays Are Not The Cause Of Climate Change, Scientists Say](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/01/040123001629.htm)** > > Eleven Earth and space scientists say that a recent paper attributing most climate change on Earth to cosmic rays is incorrect and based on questionable methodology. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/476 "2014-03-04T20:21:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Come to think of it, I don’t recall you ever asking someone for clarification in these discussions. I think it’s because you don’t really care what their position is, just that it differs from yours. And if it does, the poster is just a stupid, an evil denier, someone who can’t read for comprehension, someone who doesn’t know how to read cites, someone who just wants to kill the messenger, someone who is not paying attention, etc. > > It’ is really annoying. So many times I think I’ll follow these discussions and then I’ll run into the sort of stuff I just mentioned and just roll my eyes. I know. Since I’ve been on the SDMB, this is the first topic I have ever been compelled to look for a different web site/forum due to **GIGO’s** behavior. I want a real discussion, not to talk to an “Eliza” program. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/477 "2014-03-04T20:22:15Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I stand by my comment. I’m not even opining on the correctness—or not—of your position. I so often find reading your responses just plain annoying because they don’t seem to flow from the comment you’re responding to. Someone will make a comment and/or ask you a question and PRESTO—cites, cites and more cites! Oh Boy! That’s why I was very careful before when asking your position. And SO thankful when you actually answered my question directly. I think you, and everyone, would benefit from paying more attention to that. Because not doing so does make you appear more bot-like. A > > I would say that you’ve become overly dependent on the tools you use. I get the sense that you respond to every dissenting comment with the attitude of, “Oh yeah, we’ll let me show you a mountain of information that will show you are wrong, you Idiot Denier, you!” Much better, for this reader anyway, would be responses that start more from an attitude of “I see what you’re getting at, but…” or “I’m not sure I understand you’re point, do you mean A… or B?” > > Come to think of it, I don’t recall you ever asking someone for clarification in these discussions. I think it’s because you don’t really care what their position is, just that it differs from yours. And if it does, the poster is just a stupid, an evil denier, someone who can’t read for comprehension, someone who doesn’t know how to read cites, someone who just wants to kill the messenger, someone who is not paying attention, etc. > > It’ is really annoying. So many times I think I’ll follow these discussions and then I’ll run into the sort of stuff I just mentioned and just roll my eyes. Wrong also, more than once I have reported that I use that source and that no one can know everything, what I see here is just once an attempt at not looking at the science only because you think a poster is “funny” And if you want to tell others that you are proud of continue to ignore that Skeptical Science **was not used in this case** that FX choose to blew a top when he found the “quality” of his source, be my guest. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/478 "2014-03-04T20:26:25Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Holy fuck!@$#@! > > I’ve joked about that and it seemed like **GIGO** was a human version of that, but I had no idea it existed and he was actually using it (which he appears to have just admitted in a previous post). > > That explains why he never seemed to understand anything. > Mods: > In my humble opinion, this is a serious detriment to an actual debate. > It should be grounds for, at minimum, allowing us to set aside 1 climate thread in GD that **GIGO** is not allowed to be part of so we can have a good discussion. Report me if you want to, but since the facts are that I did not use Skeptical Science in this case you are not going to get what you want, you are once again being misled by people that are proud of not paying attention on what the target is supposed to be. I really do think that the debunking was so devastating that in reality it is clear why the a poster like me is the issue for FX and you and not what the scientists reported about what Shaviv did. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/479 "2014-03-04T20:29:30Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Wrong also,… Priceless. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728/480 "2014-03-04T20:37:29Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Priceless. I only take it that then the point stands, FX was wrong also in his accusation, I did not use Skeptical Science to debunk Shaviv (and even if that was the case it is really a silly accusation of using a troll tool) . And the team of researchers already demonstrated for a long time that Shaviv was wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-actually-been-cooling-since-2002/681728.md?page=25)