# Has the world always been going to Hell in a handbasket? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 11, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231 "2012-01-11T23:58:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/1 "2012-01-11T23:58:28Z")
The youth have no respect, sex & violence are everywhere and society is going down the drain. I’ve been hearing that sort of thing since I was in high school. Maybe it’s true, but I have a vague memory of reading about people saying this in the past as well and for a long time. Is the complaint (or its intensity) a recent phenomenon or has it pretty much always been with us? I am, here, looking for the bemoaning of social decay, spread of violence and sex and similar denounciations. It can go anywhere from the 80s to Antiquity. If it has been going on for very long, does every generation get that sort of alarmism? Why? I am putting this in General Questions because I am looking for a factual answer, likely psychological or sociological. Putting this in Great Debates would make it too likely that the discussion would veer into whether or not our time is a time of decay, which is explicitely not what I am looking for, as interesting a debate as that might be. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/2 "2012-01-12T00:05:02Z")
Here’s some quotes I’ve seen bandied about, I’m not sure if they’re accurate attributions, but people throw them about commonly: The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. - Socrates (469 BC – 399 BC) What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them? - Plato (424 BC – 347 BC) I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words… When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint. - Hesiod (8th century BC) ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/3 "2012-01-12T01:18:39Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. > > - Socrates (469 BC – 399 BC) According to [Wikiquote](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Socrates) this is _… a paraphrase of a quote from Aristophanes’ Clouds, a comedic play known for its caricature of Socrates_. Wikiquote is a pretty good source for checking up on popular quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/4 "2012-01-12T01:56:02Z")
It may or may not be going to hell in a handbasket historically speaking. On the plus side, violent crime is at or near an all time low at least in the U.S. Today’s children are the smartest ever produced in the history of the world by any way we can measure and that is the only thing that matters. That is what older people are usually referring too when they say these things so that is completely false. On the other side, we do have some unprecedented threats like global warming which started a long time ago but we only appreciate today. That alone could mark the downfall of modern civilization in a few generations or maybe not. Really old people didn’t grow up with the nuclear war capability of many countries. That could do it too but that has been the case since at least the 1950’s. Only time will tell. In general, most people aren’t taking such a long term and nuanced view when they make such comments. They are just reacting to today’s children with very, very faulty memories and poor sociological skills. That has always been the case. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/5 "2012-01-12T02:46:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Has the world always been going to Hell in a handbasket? Yes. “I might be goin to hell in a bucket, babe, but at least I’m enjoying the ride.” – Bob Weir? ---
**Author:** ![Paralogic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Paralogic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paralogic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/6 "2012-01-12T02:55:45Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > If it has been going on for very long, does every generation get that sort of alarmism? Why? > I am putting this in General Questions because I am looking for a factual answer, likely psychological or sociological. Yes, every generation does, from ancient times. If you read some ancient writings from ancient Egyptians or Greeks or Romans, you’ll find the same worry of parents or social commentators in general :: the youth is corrupt and there’s no respect for tradition and rules, and the world is going to their corresponding hell. The “Why” is very complicated to answer in a forum post. It has mostly to do with the psychological drive for ego gratification – by watching others do what you do, proving that your behavior is approved by your group, therefore accepted, therefore safe. It’s more complicated than that, but that’s all I can do for a forum post 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/7 "2012-01-12T02:58:55Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > If it has been going on for very long, does every generation get that sort of alarmism? Why? Yes, but the key point is they are only _usually_ wrong. Ancient Rome is a particularly good example of this. A consistent theme in Roman writings from the end of the Punic wars onwards is how things aren’t as good as they used to be, and the current generation has nothing on their great forefathers. Of course for a long time they were right and things WERE going to hell in a hand basket, but you can hear those complaints throughout what we’d think of as the “golden age” of Rome. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/8 "2012-01-12T03:11:31Z")
If the world has always been going to hell in a handbasket then we would prefer to live in ancient times than today. Instead, I can’t imagine a better time to be alive than today. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/9 "2012-01-12T03:44:18Z")
As for natural disasters, THOSE have been going on since the beginning of the world. I can’t get TOO over whelmed about this global warming stuff. The Earth has undergone several ice ages, and they are cyclical. It’s been warm before, it will eventually get cold again. Since the time it was written, the Book of Revelation in the New Testament has been predicting the end of the world. It seems like every generation reads it with horror, and some decide to set everything aside and wait for the Second Coming. The Rapture was first predicted in the mid 1800s. It still hasn’t arrived. I’m planning a party on December 22, 2012. The Mayans are not foolproof in their predictions. For starters, they are DEAD. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/10 "2012-01-12T06:06:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Has the world always been going to Hell in a handbasket? I think so. What changes is the precise nature of the handbaskest and the variable speeds at which it approaches Hell. But we’re all in this handbasket together, no question about that! The atheist and the believer may argue, but we all face a common predicament called Life. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/11 "2012-01-12T14:36:27Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > I’m planning a party on December 22, 2012. The Mayans are not foolproof in their predictions. For starters, they are DEAD. > ~VOW please, PLEASE don’t. don’t drag the poor mayans into this… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by **[Nasa.org](http://Nasa.org)**: \*Q: What is the origin of the prediction that the world will end in 2012? > A: The story started with claims that Nibiru, a supposed planet discovered by the Sumerians, is headed toward Earth. This catastrophe was initially predicted for May 2003, but when nothing happened the doomsday date was moved forward to December 2012. Then these two fables were linked to the end of one of the cycles in the ancient Mayan calendar at the winter solstice in 2012 – hence the predicted doomsday date of December 21, 2012. ^an author tied these concepts together in a sensationalist book…starting this whole mumjo jumbo mayan nonsense. in regard to the op: another aspect of “the world going to hell” is (appropriate to the above) the prediction of the end times. i hear a lot about how the decline of social morays is the harbinger of the end of days. the state of the world is indication we haven’t got much longer… [only this has been going on for forever, too.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_predicted_dates_of_the_end_of_the_world) ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/12 "2012-01-12T14:45:45Z")
These kinds of complaints have always been there, along with such gems as: “The rich are getting richer and the poor poorer”; and " poor people breed liek mad while our best and brightest only have a few children" It is far more interesting why people have the need to remark stuff like this, then to treat it as an observation with factual merit (excuse me, my period key is stuck) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/13 "2012-01-12T15:03:04Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > The youth have no respect, **sex & violence** are everywhere and society is going down the drain. I can see why violence is a bad thing, but why sex? The phrase “sex and violence” always utterly puzzles me. It’s like, I dunno, “marshmallows and landmines” or “kittens and cancer”. Who first thought they should be linked together? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/14 "2012-01-12T15:13:10Z")
> [@digs](#): > > “I might be goin to hell in a bucket, babe, but at least I’m enjoying the ride.” – Bob Weir? Lyrics - John Perry Barlow. Weir & Mydland wrote the tune. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/15 "2012-01-12T15:16:29Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > i hear a lot about how the decline of social morays is the harbinger of the end of days. trying hard to resist… trying really hard… just can’t resist… What do eels have to do with the end of days, and I didn’t know they socialized?! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/16 "2012-01-12T15:40:00Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > trying hard to resist… trying really hard… just can’t resist… What do eels have to do with the end of days, and I didn’t know they socialized?! 😃 dang it. mores. i just woke up. want to know the one i do that drives me totally bananas? i type “once” or “ones.” because sometimes i just go stupid. if i were at home i’d scan the Social Morays Far Side cartoon and post it. it doesn’t seem to appear online. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/17 "2012-01-12T16:05:26Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > As for natural disasters, THOSE have been going on since the beginning of the world. > > I can’t get TOO over whelmed about this global warming stuff. The Earth has undergone several ice ages, and they are cyclical. It’s been warm before, it will eventually get cold again. Around 12,000 years ago a startling jump in human population and attendant increasingly rapid technological change occurred. This is an absolutely brand-new thing in the long history of the earth, an experiment whose outcome is unknown. We already recognize that the impact on the environment is profound – despite our psychological incentive to downplay and ignore that impact. It’s unknown whether this will result in catastrophe…but to portray it as in any way part of a cycle that’s happened before is fantastically wishful thinking. > [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > please, PLEASE don’t. don’t drag the poor mayans into this… Great username/post combination! > [@Colophon](#): > > I can see why violence is a bad thing, but why sex? The phrase “sex and violence” always utterly puzzles me. It’s like, I dunno, “marshmallows and landmines” or “kittens and cancer”. Who first thought they should be linked together? My guess is they’re the two things that are most attention-getting to see in public. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/18 "2012-01-12T16:06:13Z")
I think the Mark Twain quote is appropriate here, from the othe side: “When I was 18 my old mand didn’t know a damn thing. By the time I was 25, I was amazed how much he had learned in seven years”. Every generation thinks it has all the answers, and when they get old, they forget they were that way and think the new generation does not show the qualities they think they used to have. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/19 "2012-01-12T17:57:18Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > trying hard to resist… trying really hard… just can’t resist… What do eels have to do with the end of days, and I didn’t know they socialized?! 😃 Well, going back to Ancient Rome, they were eaten with thinly cut and deep fried vegetable fritters. Which may have been involved with the Roman orator Cicero famously bemoaning, _O tempura, O morays_! when a teenaged cook didn’t make it right. Though maybe I’m remembering that one wrong. Besides, when _I_ was a boy we weren’t going to Hell in a handbasket. We had to take the BUS! And they used tokens in those days, and if you didn’t have a token or exact change, you had to WALK to Hell… Uphill! ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231/20 "2012-01-12T18:00:19Z")
I don’t get why it always has to be a handbasket. I’d much prefer to go to Hell in a nice leather attaché case. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-the-world-always-been-going-to-hell-in-a-handbasket/609231.md?page=2)