# Has there been a formal debunking of this "note home from teacher"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 5, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477 "2009-08-05T22:22:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/81 "2009-08-06T20:20:13Z")
I spent a summer as a lowly temp doing the word processing for a 10th grade chemistry textbook. I caught two errors. One was a real groaner (sadly I can’t recall), the other was a confusion between static and dynamic equilibriums. It’s pretty sad when temps are your QA department. ---
**Author:** ![SmashTheState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@SmashTheState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmashTheState)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/82 "2009-08-06T21:14:06Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Some Beavers are classified as amphibians. > [@Frylock](#): > > :dubious: …who by? The Vatican. Beavers were [declared officially](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver#In_dietary_law) to be fish. ---
**Author:** ![JonathanTheRed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JonathanTheRed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonathanTheRed)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/83 "2009-08-06T21:29:14Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Well, I got in serious trouble as a sixth grader when the teacher told us that Central America is a country and those little lines on the map are states, you know, like Georgia and Texas are. God, it made me furious. I brought in outside cites, too. Got sent to the principal’s office and had a day of in school suspension. I had my own seventh grade me-vs-everyone-including-the-teacher moment… in English rather than geography. We were learning the difference between _fact_ and _opinion_. (Well, we were being _taught_ the difference… I can’t speak for the rest of the class but I’d known the difference for years.) We were given a bunch of statements and had to mark each one as either “fact” or “opinion”. Then we went through the list, the teacher would read each statement, and the students would chant their answer. This was really simple stuff, so there was unanimity on every single one. The statements were things like: Teacher: “Two plus two equals four.” Class: “Fact.” Teacher: “Strawberry ice cream is delicious.” Class: “Opinion.” And then there was this: Teacher: “I think the weather today is beautiful.” Class (except for JtR): “Opinion.” JtR: “Fact.” Got into a huge argument with everyone, including as I said the teacher. I tried very patiently explaining (well, okay, I probably wasn’t all that patient) that while “The weather today is beautiful” is indeed an opinion, “_I think_ the weather today is beautiful” expresses a concrete, factual idea which is either true or false: either I do, think today’s weather is beautiful, or I don’t. There can be no difference of opinion there. They didn’t get it. For all I know, they still don’t. Pissed me off. You guys know I’m correct, right? ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/84 "2009-08-06T21:43:47Z")
You are correct. In my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/85 "2009-08-06T21:44:01Z")
> [@JonathanTheRed](#): > > You guys know I’m correct, right? You were right, they were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/86 "2009-08-06T21:46:58Z")
You are correct. That reminds me of the argument I had with my seventh-grade English teacher. We were learning about concrete vs abstract nouns. She insisted that “air” is abstract. I disagreed. ---
**Author:** ![JonathanTheRed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JonathanTheRed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonathanTheRed)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/87 "2009-08-06T21:49:20Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > You are correct. > > That reminds me of the argument I had with my seventh-grade English teacher. We were learning about concrete vs abstract nouns. She insisted that “air” is abstract. I disagreed. And you were correct. What, did she think that “abstract” or “concrete” had to do with substantiality of physical objects? The conclusion we can draw, I think, is that teaching the seventh grade is not a popular occupation among those who know their stuff. ---
**Author:** ![JonathanTheRed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JonathanTheRed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonathanTheRed)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/88 "2009-08-06T21:56:05Z")
(too late to edit… I apologize to any seventh-grade teachers who read the above.) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/89 "2009-08-06T22:02:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The sun actually iS the biggest star in the solar system, and oddly enough, it’s also the smallest. I thought Stephen Baldwin was the smallest… ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/90 "2009-08-06T22:06:24Z")
I got suspended in 10th grade for correcting my English Teacher. It kind of went something like this: “You can’t start a sentence with and” “Not true, many authors have done it.” I grab a book from my backpack and quickly found the sentence I was looking for. “And here’s an example by Famous Author.” “I don’t care, you can’t.” “But you can…” And out came the banstick. Stupid teacher. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/91 "2009-08-06T22:09:40Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I raised my hand and said that I was pretty sure the Amazon was in South America. She didn’t believe me until I pointed out the river on the map. I’m still not sure she didn’t cling to the belief that there was another Amazon River in India. Well, it hardly makes sense for the Amazon to be in South America. Those lady soldiers are named after it, after all, and it’s a lot more plausible that the ancient Greeks knew about India than about South America… ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/92 "2009-08-06T22:19:06Z")
> [@JonathanTheRed](#): > > (too late to edit… I apologize to any seventh-grade teachers who read the above.) I would talk some crap about seventh-grade teachers here, but (a) I’m too glad to see that not everyone has adopted the “grade seven” way of talking and (b) I have a little story to tell: In the seventh grade, I misbehaved badly enough to be sent to in-school suspension, which my middle school called “SIR,” for “self-improvement room.” Well, apparently a Buddhist named it that, because the only way you would improve yourself in SIR would be through meditation and the silent contemplation of the oneness of the universe: there was no talking, no reading, no homework-doing, nothing. Freaking _om_, already. The room, nonsensically, was arranged with a long row of [double study carrels](https://www.schooloutfitters.com/catalog/product_family_info/cPath/CAT6_CAT55/pfam_id/PFAM8745) running across the long axis of the room. The teacher’s desk was on one of the long walls of the room. This means that she could see everybody on her side and no one on the other side. Guess which side I was on? For extra credit, guess how many other people were on that side? Now grade your own work: The side she couldn’t see. Zero. Did you do well? I thought you would. So, there’s the scene. A nearly perfectly quiet room filled with 11 or so ill-behaved middle schoolers and one humorless teacher who is stuck with supervising the dregs of the school for 180 days a year. And then, someone scoots their chair, as you would to get up or just to get comfortable. You know, like you might do if you had been sitting like a lump on a log for several hours. And she accuses me of _blowing a whistle_. Despite the fact that no whistle was blown. Despite the fact that I can prove, quite definitively, that I have no whistle to blow. Now, here’s where I explain why this qualifies as not talking crap about seventh-grade teachers: As it happens, this same teacher was my eighth-grade homeroom teacher. And one day, as we’re filing out of homeroom to go to first period, she stops me and says words to the effect of, “I’m sorry about accusing of doing that thing in SIR last year. I know you well enough to know now that you didn’t do it and wouldn’t have done it.” So the thing of it is for me, even seventh grade teachers are educable. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/93 "2009-08-06T22:41:39Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > So the thing of it is for me, even seventh grade teachers are educable. Wait, wasn’t she an Eighth Grade teacher by then? I don’t think you’ve proved your point… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/94 "2009-08-06T22:47:36Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > You are correct. > > That reminds me of the argument I had with my seventh-grade English teacher. We were learning about concrete vs abstract nouns. She insisted that “air” is abstract. I disagreed. When someone has an air about them, it is. Right? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/95 "2009-08-06T22:48:21Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Wait, wasn’t she an Eighth Grade teacher by then? I don’t think you’ve proved your point… 😛 😃 Good point, but actually, no, we were eighth-grade students, but we were just in homeroom with her. The classes she taught were all still seventh-grade classes. I think she was just finally returning to a normal level of stress while recovering from her year-long SIR experience. ---
**Author:** ![bigcanuknaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ec9cab/32.png) [@bigcanuknaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bigcanuknaz)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/96 "2009-08-06T23:13:18Z")
I agree that it is probably fake. I have done some teaching, and I can’t imagine a teacher writing that a student must agree, even when they are wrong. However, many, many teachers do overtly or covertly discourage students from contradicting them. The problem is two-fold: 1. Students often do not contradict in an appropriate way. Instead of saying, “That is a lie,” or “That is wrong,” students should be encouraged to say things like “I’m not sure if that is right” or something like that. We teach facts, but just as important, we teach behaviour. As a student, I also often corrected teachers. My earliest recollection, was telling my 4th grade teacher the student who I just stabbed with my pencil would not die of lead poisoning. I found as I progressed through school, teachers got more and more proficient, and more and more amenable to debate. (and I got more and more diplomatic about my contradictions…) 2. Teachers reaction to student corrections, are in direct proportion to how comfortable a teacher feels with the material he is teaching and his overall feeling of competence. When I taught, I welcomed debate. I sometimes made mistakes. I tried to admit them as I realized I was wrong. On occasion, I even researched the answer, and admitted my mistake the next time I saw the students. But I am something of a debater (at least my wife would say so), so I am sure, there were times I was wrong, but that the student was unable to express herself well enough to convince me, or at least convince me to research further. However, a teacher that is forced to teach a curriculum that they are unfamiliar with, or even overwhelmed with; a teacher who can’t teach outside their specialty; or a teacher who can’t teach at all, can’t afford the luxury of debate. Quickly, the students of today, in many schools, would devour him. The fault for this lies not with the teachers (in most cases), it lies with the school boards, and ultimately the tax payers. I am not saying that just throwing more money at the current system would solve the problem. We probably (but not definitely) need more money. But we also need an overhaul of the system, to allow teachers to teach to their specialty and ability, and to foster classroom climates where their is room for debate. The immediate most pressing concern is class size. naz edit: added: (and I got more…) ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/97 "2009-08-06T23:52:16Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Like the guys at microsoft missed that when they wrote excel. :rolleyes: Don’t be so sure 😉 [Excel multiplication bug](http://it.slashdot.org/it/07/09/24/2339203.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/98 "2009-08-07T00:12:12Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Which? (I’m guessing you’re not talking about a vehicle of some kind.) > [@Frylock](#): > > :dubious: …who by? [Amphibian Beaver](http://www.airplanemart.com/aircraft-history-and-specification/photo/lg/DeHavilland-DHC-2-Beaver-Amphibian-Aircraft-N9558Q.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/99 "2009-08-07T04:38:10Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > The Vatican. Beavers were [declared officially](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver#In_dietary_law) to be fish. And were fish declared to be amphibians? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477/100 "2009-08-07T05:38:28Z")
> [@tanstaafl](#): > > I had a professor in college who insisted that the Holocaust never happened. We were told to write papers on the Middle East/Palestinian situation using a specific set of books we were told to read; any students with papers that contained any information that didn’t come from those books immediately had their papers failed. (I was once told “Encyclopedia Britannica? Is all bullshit; they are in the Jew’s pockets!”) > > He also threw several female students out of class for “dressing provocatively” and “eating in front of him”. > > This guy was a former member of the Egyptian delegation to the United Nations and had written a bunch of books on Middle Eastern politics. The university was always saying how proud they were to have him. > > Oh yeah, the class was a required class on European history. > > It was the only class I got less than a 3.0 in. > [@Frylock](#): > > I can’t see a reason not to name this professor. Who was he? Seconded; who was that anti-semitic, sexist, propagandizing bastard, anyway? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-been-a-formal-debunking-of-this-note-home-from-teacher/505477.md?page=6)