# Has there ever been a benevolent dictator/dictatorship? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 23, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489 "2009-03-23T18:45:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/41 "2009-03-25T13:49:37Z")
I just read that article, too, and ISTM that not only was he not that benevolent in his politics, he also seemed less-than-benevolent in his reasons for giving back the dictatorship: because he did not want the risk that he would be overthrown again by his political opposition and this time killed rather than exiled. Which isn’t to say that there weren’t purely benevolent reasons for it just that they may not have been the only reasons. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/42 "2009-03-25T14:15:37Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Or are repression and murder necessary to maintain such governments? Not if the people really believe in the ruler and in the ruler’s right to rule, which is often the case – but that works best with monarchs who have some traditional, legal or sacred claim to the position; any dictator who came to power in some other way is probably going to encounter dissent or resistance, which might well overthrow him if he doesn’t quash it. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/43 "2009-03-25T15:19:33Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I was startled to see so much emphasis in the Wikipedia article on Cincinnatus’ opposition to equal rights for the plebians. He fought against legal reforms, he opposed plebian tribunes in the senate, his son fled Rome after being brought up on charges for driving plebians out of the Forum by force to prevent them from voting, he later put down a revolt by the plebians. > > If one was a plebian, Cincinnatus might not seem so benevolent. Well, certainly the fellow had political enemies, and maybe he was totally in the wrong in his battles with them - I’m not well enough versed in the history of the time to know. But what we do know is that, having been exiled by his enemies to a tiny farm, then brought to the pinnacle of absolute power by a political shift - instead of using that power to crush his enemies (as Sulla was later to do), he … dealt with the problem, surrendered power, and went back to the tiny farm. I think if you were one of his plebian enemies, you’d find that pretty benevolent. Compared to the alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/44 "2009-03-25T16:18:00Z")
Juan Carlos the I of Spain? Groomed to take over as sole ruler on Franco’s death, he pretty much turned Spain into a constitutional monarchy instead, staring down a military coup in the process. ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/45 "2009-03-25T17:09:48Z")
> [@RogueAOV](#): > > Thats is exactly my point, he does not seem to be a dictator to me, In the previously linked documentary the people of the country want him to be in charge, even when the CIA and the old government overthrew him, the people rose up and demanded he be reinstated. The CIA connection is mentioned in the documentary IIRC and there does not seem to be any bias or falsehood in the film, it is not propaganda. It seems as if it is just the realistic view from the street, and does mention both sides. > > Assuming the film is unbias, and is not merely some trick to garner favor from anyone who might watch it who doesnt fully understand the situation or the history of the land, Chavez does not look like he is a bad guy, and that the people loves him and trust only him to protect their interests. They seem to fear anyone else taking over simply because they do not trust anyone else to do for them as much as Chavez has, or it going back to the way it was. > > The only evidence i have from on the ground there is American news reports, and that documentary, or else online. > > From what i have seen and heard myself, someone is not telling us the facts without distortion. And as i said, assuming the documentary is not propaganda and the film makers were not threatened with death unless they spun the truth. The documentary seems to indicate that he is not the “dictator” he is made out to be. I don’t think anyone in this thread has called Chavez a dictator, except you saying that he does not seem like a dictator. He is not a dictator, he wanted to seize power illegally in Venezuela through a coup, but he failed and was then elected democratically. He has been reelected since. Like any ruler he has to deal with an opposition, and his manner of dealing with that opposition is getting more and more worrisome, but so far there is still free speech in Venezuela, as well as a right to free association, multiple political parties, multiple media sources, and just about everything else that is associated with a free society. ---
**Author:** ![RogueAOV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@RogueAOV](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueAOV)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/46 "2009-03-26T06:35:05Z")
> [@lalenin](#): > > I don’t think anyone in this thread has called Chavez a dictator, except you saying that he does not seem like a dictator. He is not a dictator, he wanted to seize power illegally in Venezuela through a coup, but he failed and was then elected democratically. He has been reelected since. > > Like any ruler he has to deal with an opposition, and his manner of dealing with that opposition is getting more and more worrisome, but so far there is still free speech in Venezuela, as well as a right to free association, multiple political parties, multiple media sources, and just about everything else that is associated with a free society. I did not indicated anyone had called him a dictator here Lalenin, i was asking if anyone had information regarding why the American media constantly refer to him as a dictator, is there anyone in the straight dope which has any information about him from the ground, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/47 "2009-03-26T07:54:16Z")
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. While not actually a dictator in name he did rule Turkey. I’ve been to Turkey twice and all the Turks I’ve spoken to speak very highly of Ataturk ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/48 "2009-03-26T08:15:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Would about the British Empire? The colonies were definitely ruled by the Parliament in London and had no say in the government, so it was a dictatorship. But it was not generally a very oppressive one The colonists living here in America didn’t seem to feel that way; as they said > [@](#): > > In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people. From the document they wrote about it, called the [Declaration of Independence](http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/document/index.htm). Most of that document was devoted to listing all the oppressions they felt. ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/49 "2009-03-26T10:35:32Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. > > While not actually a dictator in name he did rule Turkey. > > I’ve been to Turkey twice and all the Turks I’ve spoken to speak very highly of Ataturk Did you speak to any Kurds? Or anyone who was particularly religious? Ataturk had many good qualities, but he certainly wasn’t entirely benevolent. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/50 "2009-03-26T12:13:01Z")
Ok, of course Mussolini was a disaster for Italy (after 1939); but before? He probaly did a lot of good: -he suppressed the Mafia in Sicily (the only man known to hav done so) -he built the autostrada (highways) -he made the trains run on time Had he allied himself with Great Britain and France (instead of Germany), he probably would be fondly remembered today. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/51 "2009-03-26T13:33:11Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > -he made the trains run on time > . > **[Mussolini and On-Time Trains](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/loco-motive/)** > > Did Mussolini make the trains run on time? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/52 "2009-03-26T15:23:51Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Tito’s Yugoslavia had a better human rights record, and was arguably better run, than some nations of “free” Western and Southern Europe. With the possible exception of Greece under the millitary junta, which ones? Yugoslavia was a one party state where press and speech were censored, dissidents were regularly locked up, sent to slave labor camps, or executed without trial, and religion was tightly controlled. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/53 "2009-03-26T15:41:51Z")
Maybe he’s counting Spain? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/54 "2009-03-26T15:50:02Z")
I’d put Tito’s Yugoslavia and Franco’s Spain at about the same level of human rights violations. Spain might have been slightly more free, but it’s pretty much a wash. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/55 "2009-03-26T16:01:46Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > Did you speak to any Kurds? Or anyone who was particularly religious? > > Ataturk had many good qualities, but he certainly wasn’t entirely benevolent. Silly me, I forgot to ask them of their ethnicity:smack: It’s been pointed out upthread that no dictator can afford to be _entirely_ benevolent ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/56 "2009-03-26T16:19:10Z")
What about Indira Ghandi? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/57 "2009-03-26T16:22:52Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > With the possible exception of Greece under the millitary junta, which ones? Yugoslavia was a one party state where press and speech were censored, dissidents were regularly locked up, sent to slave labor camps, or executed without trial, and religion was tightly controlled. All of which actually seems like a good idea in hindsight, when we consider what happened there after the lid was ripped off. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/58 "2009-03-26T16:25:49Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > The colonists living here in America didn’t seem to feel that way; as they said > > From the document they wrote about it, called the [Declaration of Independence](http://www.ushistory.org/Declaration/document/index.htm). Most of that document was devoted to listing all the oppressions they felt. But the real _casus belli_ went unlisted. The Americans knew what had happened to the Scots and the Irish after they were integrated into the English system: Not only did they lose their political independence, but most people were reduced to the status of tenant farmers for English absentee landlords. That’s what the Americans really feared. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/59 "2009-03-26T16:30:19Z")
Furthermore, the DOI blasted only the king when the Americans knew perfectly well their beef was with Parliament. But the common people of the colonies had no traditional sense of loyalty to Parliament – it was from the king that they needed to be detached. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/60 "2009-03-26T16:37:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > All of which actually seems like a good idea in hindsight, when we consider what happened there after the lid was ripped off. Right, because brutal repression always makes stuff better, that’s my motto. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489.md?page=4)