# Has there ever been a benevolent dictator/dictatorship? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 23, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489 "2009-03-23T18:45:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RogueAOV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@RogueAOV](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueAOV)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/81 "2009-03-30T04:00:42Z")
Thank you!, JRDelirous, i consider myself better educated on the subject now and have a greater understanding of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/82 "2009-03-30T23:46:33Z")
What about Mikhail Gorbachev? I would certainly call the leader of a totalitarian state a “dictator”, and yet, he is probably the one head of state most responsible for the fall of the USSR. ---
**Author:** ![First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/83 "2009-03-31T03:30:36Z")
> [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](#): > > Yes. Setting aside BrainGlutton’s comments on Haussman’s improvements to Paris under Napoleon III’s supervision, his terrible military record in the failed coups against the Restoration government of Louis-Philippe led him against using force. He repeatedly appealed instead to popularist ideals of the working class and invoked his bloodline to get him where he wanted to be. > > Still, when he overthrew the Second Republic in his capacity as its Prince-President he wasn’t afraid of locking up his political opponents in jail, and he relied upon army units to achieve that. > > (And of course his military incompetance led to the Franco-Prussian War, where he was deposed.) Just checked - 300 people died in his revolution to become emperor, and 12000 imprisoned, most of which were later released. While he is reported to have regretted the loss of life until his dying days, it still renders him callous enough to put innocents’ lives ahead of his own ambitions. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/84 "2009-03-31T03:47:19Z")
> [@lalenin](#): > > Please don’t anyone say Fidel Castro, really. I was about to say please don’t anyone mention Franco, really. But that was way too much to hope for. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/85 "2009-03-31T19:53:08Z")
> [@RogueAOV](#): > > I have heard him called a quasi dictator on fox news, mostly on things such as glenn beck and oreilly. Somewhat OT, but there was a clip on Joe Scarborough’s show this morning of Glenn Beck engaging in histrionics that would make the “Leave Britney Alone!” guy look like Mr. Spock on Valium. ---
**Author:** ![RogueAOV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@RogueAOV](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueAOV)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/86 "2009-04-01T09:07:04Z")
I just watched that [clip](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBjDADBh_EE), and the lady summed up Glenn Beck perfectly, train wreck TV. i have wondered before how much of his high rating were due to people just like me wondering where he will go next with his paranoid rants, and crying fits. I normally catch up on fox noise by watching Countdown, but lost power yesterday so missed that gem, thanks for pointing it out to me. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/87 "2009-04-01T20:32:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t think Tito had much to boast about in terms of genocide and chaos. [Rummel goes on to identify the top nine killers: > (1) Joseph Stalin, 43 million dead, 1929-'53; > (2) Mao Tse-tung, 38 million, 1923-'76; > (3) Adolf Hitler, 21 million, 1933-'45; > (4) Chiang Kai-shek, 10 million, 1921-'48; > (5) Vladimir Lenin, 4 million, 1917-'24; > (6) Tojo Hideki (Japan), 4 million, 1941-'45; > (7) Pol Pot, 2.4 million, 1968-'87; > (8) Yahya Khan (Pakistan), 1.5 million, 1971; \*\* > (9) Josip Broz, better known as Marshal Tito (Yugoslavia), 1.2 million, 1941-'80.\*\*](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2419/was-andrew-jackson-one-of-the-worlds-most-prolific-mass-murderers). > > And third overall as a percentage of the populace murdered. > > Regards, > Shodan I’m ashamed to say I’d never even heard of two of these. (Hideki and Khan) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/88 "2009-04-01T22:11:52Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I’m ashamed to say I’d never even heard of two of these. (Hideki and Khan) You’ve probably heard of Hideki, but as Tojo (in Japan they put family names first). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/89 "2009-04-01T22:13:43Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What about Mikhail Gorbachev? I would certainly call the leader of a totalitarian state a “dictator”, and yet, he is probably the one head of state most responsible for the fall of the USSR. A dictator’s benevolence manifested in **unintentionally** bringing down his own government? I doubt that counts. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/90 "2009-04-02T16:19:02Z")
Perhaps-but I’m thinking of _glasnost_ and _perestroika_, mostly. Increasing freedom in Russia, improving relations with the U.S. and Britain, etc. [Wiki’s page on Gorbachev](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorbachev) ---
**Author:** ![First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2009, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489/91 "2009-04-04T06:27:43Z")
I’m a little uncertain about counting Gorbachev as a dictator. Seems he was more of an accidental liberator. Funny to think that a potential candidate for this title now endorses Louis Vuitton luggage in advertisements. > [@TruCelt](#): > > Originally Posted by Shodan > I don’t think Tito had much to boast about in terms of genocide and chaos. Rummel goes on to identify the top nine killers: > (1) Joseph Stalin, 43 million dead, 1929-'53; > (2) Mao Tse-tung, 38 million, 1923-'76; > (3) Adolf Hitler, 21 million, 1933-'45; > (4) Chiang Kai-shek, 10 million, 1921-'48; > (5) Vladimir Lenin, 4 million, 1917-'24; > (6) Tojo Hideki (Japan), 4 million, 1941-'45; > (7) Pol Pot, 2.4 million, 1968-'87; > (8) Yahya Khan (Pakistan), 1.5 million, 1971; > (9) Josip Broz, better known as Marshal Tito (Yugoslavia), 1.2 million, 1941-'80.. > > And third overall as a percentage of the populace murdered. > > Regards, > Shodan Makes you realise just how badly Russia and China have suffered in the last 100 years. The top 6 operated in those two countries (Tojo gets credit for the deaths in China in WW2 , I assume). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-benevolent-dictator-dictatorship/490489.md?page=4)