# Has There Ever Been A Case of Human Fossilization?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [December 7, 2002, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210 "2002-12-07T23:01:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2002, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/1 "2002-12-07T23:01:29Z")
I know that fossilization is a process by which the tissues of dead animals and plants are converted into stone. We have many examples of this (fossilized wood, dinosau fossils). But, has a human body ever been found to be fossilized? How long does the process take?😕
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### Author:  [@cdhostage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cdhostage)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2002, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/2 "2002-12-07T23:26:54Z")
I have no idea how long it takes.
Come to think of it, bones are calcium carbonate already… already rock. So I guess as soon as the rest of you is done rotting, you are considered a “fossil.”
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### Author:  [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2002, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/3 "2002-12-07T23:39:26Z")
Fossils have been found of [archaic _Homo sapiens_](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html#archaics), of [Neandertals](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html#neandertals) (either a subspecies of _Homo sapiens_ or a related species within Genus _Homo_), and of [modern _H. sapiens_](http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html#moderns) (_H. sapiens sapiens_), specifically the famous “Cro-Magnons”.
Not quite the same thing, but there are also assorted mummies from various cultures (Egypt, obviously), either deliberately created as in the case of the ancient Egyptians, or somewhat more accidental, as in the case of sacrifice victims found mummified in the Andes, or north European sacrifice victims found in peat bogs. The famous La Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles also contained at least one human skeleton.
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### Author:  [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2002, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/4 "2002-12-07T23:46:18Z")
[This site](http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/skeleton/skeleton.htm), while of an apparent creationist slant, does list some examples.
[More](http://museum.mm.pref.okinawa.jp/web_e/history/story/epoch1/kyusekki_3.html) from Okinawa.
A [Macedonian Press Agency release](http://www.hri.org/news/greek/mpab/1996/96-11-27.mpab.html) announced an 11 Million (!?!) year old human fossil find in 1996.
A report from the [People’s Daily](http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/200006/12/eng20000612_42820.html) reports some from China’s Zhejiang Province.
Between tomfoolery (Moab Man, Mt. Rushmore) and some obvious agendas, it behooves one to read what they find on the subject skeptically.
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### Author:  [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2002, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/5 "2002-12-07T23:49:21Z")
And don’t forget to check out the [Cave Being of Ras el Khaima](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=148663). 😉
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### Author:  [@cdhostage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cdhostage)
#### Post date: [December 7, 2002, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/6 "2002-12-07T23:54:18Z")
I wonder if mummies are considered fossils… nah.
I bet that bones found out in the wild (underground silly) after a thousand years are considered fossils.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2002, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/7 "2002-12-08T00:01:02Z")
What the OP is talking about is not fossilization _per se_, but petrification.
A fossil is _any_ evidence of ancient life that is preserved in a sediment or sedimentary rock. Fossils can include unaltered bones, wood, foot prints, etc, as well as remains that have been petrified or replaced by minerals.
Petrification, a mineralization process, occurs in some fossils. Dissolved minerals in ground water penetrate the original bone, shell, wood, or whatever and crystallize inside. The fossil becomes hardened and stonelike. In replacement, the bone itself dissolves and be replaced by minerals that preserve its exact form
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### Author:  [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2002, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/8 "2002-12-08T00:35:17Z")
When my genetics professor was asked this, he said, “There are no human fossils, but we have found _plenty_ of old bones-- man hasn’t been here long enough for fossils to form.”
The definition he presented to describe a _fossil_ is “the remains of a once-living creature, wherein the original cellular structure has been replaced, molecule by molecule, with non-living substances, typically glass.”
Evidently, many consider any very old remains to be fossils, whether their original cellular structure is intact, as some of these links will show:
> [@](#):
>
> Ask for a student to volunteer to “become fossilized.” Then allow the students to build a scenario of fossilization for their comrade.
>
> “John” must meet his demise in some remote locality (hunting, fishing, camping, etc.-John decides). The students will have fun inventing ways to kill John (attacked by bear, mountain lion, rattle snake, killed by rock fall, avalanche, etc.). What must happen for John to become fossilized?
>
> The following discussion will take the class through the process of fossilization.
> - [http://www.moonsnail.org/Mini\_Preservation.htm](http://www.moonsnail.org/Mini_Preservation.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> **b. Followed by mineralization**
> _i._ In time, with water seepage, the atoms associated with the once living organism are
> replaced by minerals which precipitate out of the water within the structures of the
> organism before these structures are lost.
> _ii._ Additionally, the buried sediments containing the buried organism gradually turn to stone,
> thus entombing the fossil in stone as well as converting imprints to stone.
> - [http://www.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/~sabedon/biol1520.htm](http://www.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/~sabedon/biol1520.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> Taphonomy may be the study of when “the remains of the organism make a passage from the biosphere to the lithosphere” (Plotnick 1993)…
> - [http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/courses/en570/papers\_1998/spriggs.htm](http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/courses/en570/papers_1998/spriggs.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> The dental fossils show a mix of both ape- and hominid-like traits. The canines are relatively large, like those of apes, but in shape more like incisors, a hominid trait.
> - [http://www.cabrillo.cc.ca.us/~crsmith/drama.html](http://www.cabrillo.cc.ca.us/~crsmith/drama.html)
> (Several pictures)
-David
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/9 "2002-12-08T00:59:12Z")
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by SoulFrost_
> \*\*When my genetics professor was asked this, he said, “There are no human fossils, but we have found plenty of old bones-- man hasn’t been here long enough for fossils to form.”
>
> The definition he presented to describe a fossil is “the remains of a once-living creature, wherein the original cellular structure has been replaced, molecule by molecule, with non-living substances, typically glass.”\*\*
**SoulFrost** , I’m afraid your genetics professor didn’t have a clue what he was talking about. As I said, “fossil” simply applies to any remains of organic life preserved naturally:
From Merriam Webster:
> [@](#):
>
> **Main Entry: fossil
> Function: noun
> Date: 1736
> 1 : a remnant, impression, or trace of an organism of past geologic ages that has been preserved in the earth’s crust
> . . .(etc)**
This is the standard definition you will find in pretty much any paleontology text.
As for the second part, he is obviously confusing petrification with fossilization. The part about “glass” is nonsense; possibly he simply meant silicates. But silicates are not equivalent to glass.
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Ringo \*
> \*\*[This site](http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/skeleton/skeleton.htm), while of an apparent creationist slant, does list some examples.
>
> [More](http://museum.mm.pref.okinawa.jp/web_e/history/story/epoch1/kyusekki_3.html) from Okinawa.
>
> A [Macedonian Press Agency release](http://www.hri.org/news/greek/mpab/1996/96-11-27.mpab.html) announced an 11 Million (!?!) year old human fossil find in 1996.
>
> A report from the [People’s Daily](http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/english/200006/12/eng20000612_42820.html) reports some from China’s Zhejiang Province.
>
> Between tomfoolery (Moab Man, Mt. Rushmore) and some obvious agendas, it behooves one to read what they find on the subject skeptically. \*\*
I definitely agree with the last bit. I don’t think any of the info found on creationist websites is trustworthy. In fact, this makes the topic a bit difficult to search for, since Googling “petrified human remains” mostly yields Creationist sites.
To return to the OP, there are of course lots of human fossils, some of which have been mineralized/petrified.
On of the most famous of the latter was the original specimen of [Java Man](http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/trinil2.html), _Pithecanthropus erectus_ (now classified as _Homo erectus_). As the site mentions, the cranium was “heavily mineralized,” in other words, petrified.
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### Author:  [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2002, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/10 "2002-12-08T01:12:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> **SoulFrost** , I’m afraid your genetics professor didn’t have a clue what he was talking about.
_Never_ insult Albus Dumbl…
You may be right. Then again, all of the fossils he showed us (mostly trilobites and such) _did_ seem to be made of some glass-like material…
-David
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2002, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/11 "2002-12-08T01:29:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by SoulFrost \*
> \*\* You may be right. Then again, all of the fossils he showed us (mostly trilobites and such) _did_ seem to be made of some glass-like material…
> \*\*
[Trilobites](http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/trinil2.html) were unique among arthropods in that their skeltons, in addition to chitin, also contained calcite (calcium carbonate), which is very durable. You may have been looking at the original material that composed their shells, not a mineralized replacement.
The longer a fossil has been buried and exposed to groundwater, the more likely it is to become mineralized/petrified. Therefore recent remains tend to be unaltered or less-altered bone/shell, and very old remains are frequently petrified or replaced by minerals. However, there is no absolute correlation. Some very ancient fossils, as some trilobites, retain the original material they were composed of, while some much more recent ones, such as some human remains, have become mineralized. It really depends on the local environment and the fossil’s history.
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### Author:  [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2002, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/12 "2002-12-08T02:02:33Z")
> [@](#):
>
> You may have been looking at the original material that composed their shells, not a mineralized replacement.
Now THAT would be cool-- to see an actual, unaltered, part of something that lived so long ago. Thanks for the info!
-David
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### Author:  [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2002, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/13 "2002-12-08T02:04:05Z")
Have some fun with this topic. Google the Cardiff Giant.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2002, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/14 "2002-12-08T03:02:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by stuyguy \*
> \*\*Have some fun with this topic. Google the Cardiff Giant. \*\*
[Some other petrification hoaxes](http://www.discovery.com/guides/history/historybuff/library/refpetrification.html)
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [December 8, 2002, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-there-ever-been-a-case-of-human-fossilization/141210/15 "2002-12-08T06:48:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \*
> \*\*\ The famous La Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles also contained at least one human skeleton. \*\*
Ah, yes, Sylvester Stallone.